Animal testing

[cpvr]

I'm not exactly well educated about this issue, but after seeing a myspace bulletin by one of my friends trying to spread the word on Animal testing, I want to learn more about it.. It's wrong, and I believe it needs to be stopped, but how can we stop it?

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00003/82/08/3338028_l.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7558/animals67cb.jpg
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/2756/monkey16jp.jpg

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

Can you give some context to those images? Animal activists often take events out of context (or lie about their context) to falsely prove a point.

[cpvr]

Voice 1:

Can you give some context to those images? Animal activists often take events out of context (or lie about their context) to falsely prove a point.
It was posted on Myspace by one of my friends, I'm not exactly sure where the images came from, but it was a bulletin that said "Please spread the word of Animal testing, so we can save our animals!"

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

MySpace is far from a reliable source. Without any source on those images, they're entirely meaningless. There isn't even anything to connect them to animal testing.

There is a large amount of red tape regarding animal testing. If those pictures, were, in fact, images from animal testing practices, those labs would lose their licenses to test on animals. There is also no incentive towards the labs to make the animal suffer, as it interferes with their results.

[cpvr]

So, basically those images aren't just madeup and not accurate at all? I know scientists always use mice for testing, but that's nothin bad because there's a lot of mice in existance.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

Those images could just be images of animal neglect or abuse with no relation to animal testing. The cat one could even be a Photoshopped image (as PETA and other PETAesque groups have been proven to do during legal cases against them).

Animal testing incorporates a variety of animals. Mice are common, but researchers will use the animal they feel is needed. For example, my biology teacher informed us last year of his experience witnessing an experiment carried out by some of his professors. They managed to map the genome of a chicken, and were discovering the concept of specialized cells. The end result was the birth of a blue chicken, proving their theory.

Although the animal is usually one that is plentiful in nature (chickens, mice, etc.)

[Trilobite]

I have seen animal testing undercover videos, or supposedly that's what they are, in high school. The teacher was showing it as matter of fact, but I can't trust their word that it's real, they've spewed some shades of bull minure in the past about things they claimed to be fact, and really wasn't. Well, let's just say it was pretty horriffic. Although it's possible there had been some cherrypicking of the content.

A lot of testing is for practical uses that we might benefit from. Some of this testing doesn't require the animal to suffer. I'm not against testing which is necessary and if the animals are kept in good, spaceous conditions, fed and wattered accordingly, and are asessed on their wellbeing and state of mind.

Sadly, some necessary experimentation also requires the animal to be in levels of discomfort, pain, or even death. For this, I hope they look towards alternatives to using animals. It sickens me that anything should suffer for more than a minute or two for posible benefits. (killing for food being an exception, done as quick as possible). Howver, many tests done on suffering animals have lead to medical breakthroughs. So that's a tricky one. I don't like it but many people would probably disagree.

Not all animals testing leaves the animal in pain. Some testing is on behaviour, leaning about the animal itself, whether it be for a product or something else where a happy, natural environment would be best suited for most accurate results.

What I am greatly opposed to is unnecessary testing on animals, for products for human skin, or consumption on a commercial level. I praise human volunteers who opt to test new products, because at least a human can give consent. An animal cannot. Also, testing for the curiosity of people. Creating mutants and genetically altered creatures... that makes the bile rise in my throat...

So, before opposing to animal testing as a whole, learn a little about it first. Some of it is really nasty, but other testing can be kind to animals.

[piggywizzy]

OMG. Poor animals. *sob*

[electric_blue_kirby]

EBK:

words

'Ello! Welcome to VPL and the Debate board! Please make sure that your posts contribute to the debate.

This is a debate on the subject of animal testing. We have many other boards for discussion. Spam is not tolerated on VPL.

[Emmy]

Image 1: Animal cruelty. Nothing to do with testing. No form of animal testing which is legal can be carried out in a cardboard box. The fact they are saying this IS testing highlights their problem to me.

Image 2: So the dog has had a brain operation by the looks of it. So? Who says THAT is testing? Veterinary medicine does various brain surgery, for a hell of a high cost. Who says it isn't simply a head tissue injury which has had the edges debrided and skin staples placed in to close the wound? Trust me, I work in veterinary medicine - this could be ANYTHING again.

Image 3: So animal testing was carried out in the 50's like this, and this is a representation of animal testing now how exactly? It certainly isn't a recent photo is it....

So what is the point of these images? To cause hatred towards a section of the community working towards a better life.

Yes, some testing is done on animals. Is is NECESSARY. At the moment, there is no alternative in order to test some things. Some drugs etc. can be tested in other methods, great, but for those that can't, we need some form of animal testing to find out if they are safe. We may not like it, but I am pretty sure most of us would rather it was done than lose a loved one to something there MIGHT be a drug in the future to treat.

And... just on a side-line... these drugs they are testing... are also used to advance VETERINARY medicine! So, as horrible as it sounds, using the few benefits other animals too!

We need to keep a balanced view on these things... and as for those pictures... PETA needs to get a grip sometimes.

[Fly]

Animal testing is a horrible thing...but it is necessary. The medicines we use are tested on animals first. The start off with mice or guinea pigs, then graduate to the dogs and cats, then more animals. If they didn't test it on animals, then it would have to be tested on humans first.

It's a necessary evil.

The labs they test drugs and other things in are supposed to be secure. The everyday people are not supposed to get a look at things like this. Sure the pictures make you feel horrible, that's why they should never be let out to the public. I'd rather not see an animal that's been tested using my diabetes medicine.

Feelings of sympathy for the animals are fine, but just remember, what the scientists are doing is necessary for your/mine/our survival.

A long time ago they tested stupid shit like makeup on animals. That I don't agree with. Now most makeups you buy tell you there was no animal testing involved.

[Herb]

I agree those aren't relative photos of current/if any animal testing.

Think of it this way if we don't test things on animals we test them on humans! I think the animals are better because they can reproduce faster them humans and haven't got the same brain capacity as humans, emotions and such.

[xAnonymousx]

I think it's wrong...
I hate people who wear fur and wear tested makeup.
Even if I didn't known they did, for some reason they all act this one way...
X6

[Trilobite]

I agree those aren't relative photos of current/if any animal testing.

Think of it this way if we don't test things on animals we test them on humans! I think the animals are better because they can reproduce faster them humans and haven't got the same brain capacity as humans, emotions and such.

You're right that they don't have the capacity to understand what is happening to them, but they do have the capacity to feel as much fear and pain as we do. It's necessary for survival in the wild to feel fear and pain.

[Emmy]

As a veterinary nurse I can tell you 100% that they feel pain, fear and many other emotions...

[Herb]

Maybe I shouldn't have said the word emotions, now that I re-read what I wrote it sounds funny like that.

[Emmy]

*nods* I am pretty sure I know what you meant, that they don't think in the same way we do - even to the degree they don't realise what is happening to them and if born and raised in a laboratory they know no different.

[jpd1975]

I did a research paper on animal testing and needless to say, my findings were very displeasing and yes, its awful but there are reasons to do it, but it is still wrong.

[youlensparky]

Someone stated earlier that you never know where these pictures are from, and they cannot be anymore correct. That picture you posted, Carlos, could have been due to neglecting ownership, homelessness of the animal, or abuse. And trust me, I've seen many of the same pictures of injured animals with SEVERAL different reasons written about the picture.

Think about it. Why would scientists duct tape the animal's legs, and leave it covered in blood and abandon it in a cardboard box? If anything, after testing, they would take it out of it's misery in a less painful way. I mean, if they used the animal to test for medicines, and they let the animal go free outside the lab, that may help spread diseases.

I support animal testings. Don't get me wrong. I love animals, but you know what I also love? My seven year old cousin who was sick in the hospital, and was always on some kind of medication. My dad who got the flu shot so he'd be the last person I'd get the flu from. My uncle who died of cancer, and the cancer research being done for cancer.

Vaccines and medicines were once tested on animals before tested and given to humans. Every painkiller, every flu shot, every cough medicine you receive - was probably tested on another living thing to ensure you will be okay.

Think of everything around you, too. Think of your hygiene products. Some of those may have been tested on animals, otherwise companies would either have found an alternative(usually more expensive for them and you), OR take a risk and hope you don't get a rash/disease/skin randomly peeling off. However, there are just some things that you CANNOT find an alternative, or bet your luck on, and that is your loved one's health and well being.

Surprisingly, mice and rats have are pretty genetically close to humans (source: my biology teacher), so most of the testing will be on them. And what do some households think of mice? They are pests! The same animal that people would PAY to be exterminated are the same animals who are used to make sure you'll live longer.

As for makeup testings... Well, I don't wear makeup, and I barely support the concept of it. So... Personally, I don't think animal testing for that product is unnecessary.

Some of you may think I'm cruel for saying all this, but to be honest, I'm not thinking/posting out of emotions. I'm posting and thinking realistically. It would be nice to think of a happy lalaland where no animals are hurt for you to be alive. Unfortunately, that's not how this lifetime works. Humans are still curious, and still learning. Health science has not been perfected.

Oh, and another thing... Eating meat! Unless you are a vegetarian, many animals died to feed you. Animals are also dying in other ways to feed/heal people all over the world.

Just think about it.

[Kyrislian]

I've a little something to say.

I'm a member in another site, and pretty much this same thread popped up. Someone in that site actually works in the Animal Testing field, pretty much angry with the "Animal testing = evil" reflex. From what she said, the animals actually don't suffer. They work with the animals closely, to the point of being very emotionally attached to the animals. The animals are fussed over, kept in very good environments, and in most cases are kept in conditions that are much better than other people's pets. IF an animal had to be put down after testing, they do it in the most humane way they can.

A basic summary of her words.

Also, from my own experience.

The university I went to (University of Queensland, Brisbane) had a veterinary branch. There they take in animals who would have been put down from the local animal shelters/pounds to do their tests and experiments. Mainly dogs and cats.

I've seen the places where they keep the animals. Very good conditions. The dogs are walked twice a day around the entire campus (which is very huge), get played with and all of them look so happy and content. For the cats, they're kept in rooms with a lot of playthings, and have a lot of people fussing and playing with them. They have several volunteers whose job is to actually just play and care with the pets.

After the experiements, the dogs and cats get put up for adoption. For a mere $50, you get the pet, with free 1kg bag of food, a microchip, sterilization if you want, and 3 free vet checkups.

Pretty good for a pet which was about to be put down, hey?