Can one succeed without an High School Diploma or GED? [Archive]

cpvr

05-13-2007, 11:16 PM

I'm pretty sure a lot of people have their thoughts on this issue, and I believe I should be the first to say yes you can, because I've gotten expelled twice from public schools and now I'm going to get my GED, which is an equivalent to an High School Diploma. Many of my past teachers said I was going to be a failure without getting my Diploma, but I just laughed at them because I'm not a failure and never was. Sure, after I got expelled I sold drugs and tried to make a living. I stopped selling drugs before I got caught by the police because they were keeping an eye out on me, but I played it off and never got caught.

I, for one, am a firm believer that one can succeed without an High School Diploma. My nana never graduated, my mom never graduated, and my dad never graduated. My dad moved to the United States at the age of 19 and just worked for a living and still is.. Not only did my mom have me at the age of 19, she dropped out of high school in 9th grade. She's successful in my eyes because she raised us (6 kids) and still is living here life.

I don't know why teachers and the like say someone will not succeed without an High School Diploma without telling them different. Sure, I should have never gotten expelled from school, but do I regret it? Nope, because without getting expelled from school I wouldn't be in the position I am in today. Sure, I grew up in the streets and survived them, and will continue to do so..

And my point is if you get expelled, or drop out, then it's up to you to succeed or fail in life. I got on my hustle and am now getting my GED. I have no regrets in my life because what I did and have done is for a reason and I believe I'm going to do fine no matter what.

What do you guys feel about this issue?

beanso

05-14-2007, 05:55 AM

Yeah, you definitely can.
Anyone, high school diploma or not, can, per say, become a car mechanic, make some money doing that, then open their own business and start raking in the cash. It may be harder to get the money to start the business, but after that, if you have enough knowledge of business principles, you can make almost limitless money. A high school diploma and some credentials would speed up the process, but it's possible to do it without either.

There are also many professions you could take up with high school.
I, for one, learned how to program outside of high school, and could probably start free lancing at my level of ability.

Trilobite

05-15-2007, 02:11 AM

I've never hard of a high school diploma. Is that something they have overseas? Here you just finish high school - you don't get anything other than a certificate with all your grades on it (which are pretty much useless outside the UK). I didn't even finish high school, and I still got it. Wasn't my fault though...

piggywizzy

05-15-2007, 07:09 AM

I think it depends on the character of the person too. but then again, I'm not an expert :P

electric_blue_kirby

05-15-2007, 02:15 PM

Voice 1:

words

A high school diploma is a certificate stating that you completed high school. Depending on your area, there may also be some differing types of diploma indicating your performance.

Actual details (grades, classes, etc.) would be on your transcript, which is what most colleges and universities would care about.

A GED is a certificate stating that the person has shown that their knowledge is equivilant to that of an individual whom would have graduated high school (determined through knowledge tests in various academic areas).

ShaoShao

05-18-2007, 09:43 AM

... an High School Diploma?
I lol'd.

I take it this is easier to get than five C+ GCSEs as all you have to do is stay in school, yes? I think regardless of whether you get a high school diploma or qualification, there is always college courses and specific training for occupations that people can pick up. In the UK you can even retake your high school courses if you failed them the first time (I have no knowledge of US schemes though). Everyone should have a second chance so that they can contribute to society, governments want people who are employed or being further educated so some will have that chance.

Education and special training aside, there are many jobs you can have which just require a day's training and some common sense. Providing you know what you're doing you can take all sorts of jobs up or make your own. I know a guy who works four different jobs, two in plant nurseries, one in a theatre and one in a chemists, and he has no previous knowledge for any of them. I suppose being comfortable with what you find is a whole different thing though.

cpvr

05-18-2007, 08:02 PM

Education and special training aside, there are many jobs you can have which just require a day's training and some common sense. Providing you know what you're doing you can take all sorts of jobs up or make your own. I know a guy who works four different jobs, two in plant nurseries, one in a theatre and one in a chemists, and he has no previous knowledge for any of them. I suppose being comfortable with what you find is a whole different thing though.
Not a bad point Shao, but how does he manage so many jobs? Does he work full-time or part-time? Like my current job tried to get me to join the Union, they state that they'll do a lot for you, which they don't do anything except taking your money..

Even if you don't graduate, or get your GED, I believe you can still succeed as long as you have your commen sense and know what you're doing.

Fly

05-19-2007, 02:44 PM

I don't have a GED or a high school diploma. What I have is an 11th grade education. I have succeeded through sheer determination...and being a stubborn ass rebel.

My husband Ralph has his GED (he quit in the 10th grade) and now he makes almost $40.00 an hour doing sheetmetal work on airplanes.

That's success I think.

Ian

05-19-2007, 05:00 PM

I have no idea how US schools work, but I think for 95% of population, an education is important

But i didn't go to university and have no intentions of going, and I'm doing better than most people I know my age

Awakening

06-01-2007, 09:26 PM

Is it possible to succeed without a high school diploma? Yes, it's possible - but not likely.

All of our doctors, politicians, professors, lawyers, and businessmen have achieved a minimum of a high school diploma. For all but businessmen, a bachelor degree is required in order to practice. The lower-tier jobs, the ones that pay within the range of minimum wage, go to the kids who gave up on high school. There are a few counter-examples to cite, such as Donald Trump, but because such people don't represent the majority of the population they are weak illustrations.

The key to success is an education. Anyone who argues otherwise is bitter because they were either too lazy or unmotivated to complete something as simple as high school.

I can happily say I'm working towards my Masters degree and encourage everyone to do the same for a brighter future! Good luck.

*EDIT* Added: This isn't really a valid debate because the topic implies that you only need one example in order to prove it true. :)

Trilobite

06-06-2007, 04:10 PM

Anyone who argues otherwise is bitter because they were either too lazy or unmotivated to complete something as simple as high school.

So anyone who doesn't complete high school is unmotivated or lazy?

cpvr

06-06-2007, 05:22 PM

electric_blue_kirby

06-06-2007, 08:02 PM

Voice 1:

Actually, Bill Gates was a college dropout, not a high school dropout. He never finished his degree as he became so engrossed with the computers they had at his university.

Awakening

06-07-2007, 02:02 AM

So anyone who doesn't complete high school is unmotivated or lazy?

No. Read my post again.

I said anyone who argues otherwise is bitter, and possess the sort of qualities I mentioned. Although I could make a very generalized argument about this - what can we observe from a person who couldn't complete 4 years of core education? Was that trigonometry class really so difficult that you gave up on education altogether? Millions of kids are struggling, but they aren't all quitters.

We're not cavemen anymore. Every generation must exceed the one before it in order to advance civilization. I assure you, the scientists that pioneer eco-safe transportation and find the cure for cancer will have gone far beyond a high school diploma.

Awakening

06-07-2007, 02:08 AM

So you believe that you can't succeed with a GED? I believe you can, anyone can. Bill Gates didn't graduate high school and look at him today. A lot of rappers didn't either, and they're still making money.

Once again, no. People need to read my posts more carefully before they reply.

I said it is possible, but not likely. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/OES), over 85% of jobs paying six-figure salaries are merited to people who attained at least a bachelor's degree. Associate degrees aren't even good enough these days! The competition is overwhelming and in today's market employers are looking for people who know their stuff.

What can we deduce? THE MAJORITY OF HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL, monetarily speaking. There are several well-paying jobs out there, and those jobs go to the people who sought to complete their education.

As mentioned, there are plenty of dropouts who scored big. I commend them. But the ratio of successful dropouts to successful graduates is very stunning. This is where I make my point that education is valuable.

Also, you use the examples of Bill Gates (which is invalid by the way) and rappers; however, recall that these are unique cases. In an "on balance" argument, these examples are meaningless. I ask the question: How many people from each city in America end up as truly successful rap artists?

I don't know if I come across as aggressive through my posts, if I do excuse me - debate was one of my main extracurricular activities all through high school and college! :)

Regards

cpvr

06-20-2007, 11:25 PM

What can we deduce? THE MAJORITY OF HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUTS ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL, monetarily speaking. There are several well-paying jobs out there, and those jobs go to the people who sought to complete their education.
I agree with you on this one, but it all depends on the person. Whether they want to get their GED or not, or just flat-out turn to the streets and become a drug dealer and drug addicts. It's really up to the person like I stated. Anyone can succeed if they put their mind to it, correct?

I ask the question: How many people from each city in America end up as truly successful rap artists?

No idea, probably around 15%?

TVDinner

07-03-2007, 08:17 PM

One of my best employees does not have a high school diploma.
I don't care what your education is if you work hard, are loyal, and willing to do what it takes to be successful.

cpvr

07-04-2007, 06:12 AM

One of my best employees does not have a high school diploma.
I don't care what your education is if you work hard, are loyal, and willing to do what it takes to be successful.
Exactly, but if you're lazy and don't care to try to get an education someway or another, then where will you end up?

TVDinner

07-04-2007, 06:14 AM

in trouble. Lazy is just lazy and way to many people are like that. they just expect to get paid or to get something in life. that IS NOT the way it works in the real world and they quickly find that out.
and now a days you can get you GED basically at home, so why not at least get that if you absolutely have to.

cpvr

07-04-2007, 06:20 AM

That's exactly what I did. I didn't want to become a failure. Sure, I got expelled from school, and waited a few months before deciding to get my GED, and believe me it was worth the 2 months that I spent working on it. It's not hard to get it, but maybe receiving an High School Diploma is harder.

I don't know because I didn't last in high school. Not everybody does.

TVDinner

07-04-2007, 06:27 AM

but you DID do the right thing and got your GED. Many people never do that and then cant get jobs or have the same opportunities that others have. So you DID make choices and decisions to better yourself. that is the big difference.

cpvr

07-04-2007, 06:30 AM

Ya, it's a big difference, but it's like once I got it, it didn't mean anything. Why did I feel this way? I worked my butt off trying to get it - even went to classes everyday so I wouldn't have to pay $80 just to take the test.

So, basically you can't succeed without a GED nor High school diploma?

TVDinner

07-04-2007, 06:32 AM

not all of the time. You can get a job and be successful without it, but it sure is helpful opening up some doors and getting you a chance you might not get without it.

cpvr

07-04-2007, 06:34 AM

Well, not a high paying job right? Without a GED, nor diploma most jobs won't hire you, correct?

TVDinner

07-04-2007, 06:43 AM

yes and no. I have a friend who did not graduate and did not get his GED. He started landscaping many years ago, worked his way up to being one of the managers with the company, then started his own landscaping company, and then expanded to doing construction type jobs (he hired people who knew how to do this stuff) and kept growing. he is worth millions now and has no diploma or GED. Another friend started workign in a restaurant as a waiter, moved up and is now running big restaurants. No diploma and now making over 50K a year. Again, LIFE is all what you make of it. If you are willing to work hard, be professional, not get caught up in silly games or business politics, you can succeed pretty easily. the problem is that people get caught up in the small stuff and ALWAYS fail to see the bigger long term picture.

cpvr

07-04-2007, 06:45 AM

I know how that feels too. Sometimes I feel like giving up on a lot of things, but if you give up, then you won't succeed. It's called hardwork and not giving up. If you want to succed without them, then you need to work hard and be professional as you stated, but if you want to be lazy and not do anything with your life, then it's only your fault and not anyone elses.

online.education

07-05-2007, 02:16 AM

Generally speaking, the higher education you have, the higher income you have. There are always exceptions. There are those who make billions without going to college like Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, etc. (John D.) Rockefeller didn't go to college, either. There are, of course, those who are heavily in debt, though they have PhD and what have you. But, conventionally speaking, it's better to have college education; having Master's is even better.

But going back to your original question, you don't really need GED or high school diploma to survive. Also there are enough exceptions so that you can say that you do have a chance to become (financially) successful without having any diploma. (At least in US, this is the case ...)

ben

07-22-2007, 01:52 PM

The majority of those with out diplomas/GED's, who really succeed, usually do so through their own business, I believe. But what do you consider success is also an input. Do you consider success making $100,000 a year, or a 1,000,000+? :)

TVDinner

07-22-2007, 02:03 PM

while making 1 million would be nice. in this world making 100K is being successful...

online.education

07-23-2007, 01:10 AM

But what do you consider success is also an input. Do you consider success making $100,000 a year, or a 1,000,000+? :)

Well, it's all subjective, but generally speaking, those who have university degrees earn more than those without. Those who have Masters earn even more on average. BUT there are always exceptions, and there are those who do very very well financially while they don't even have high school diplomas.

xAnonymousx

08-25-2007, 11:17 AM

Yeah.

virtubots

08-27-2007, 08:07 AM

I somewhat feel that the stuff that you learn on your own (outside of classes) is some of the most valuable education that you can get. You learn at your own pace, you can always try to figure things out on your own, and it's that little personal success that I think is great.

With me, I've done that sort of thing with computers (inside of them) and with web programming. I didn't take any classes to learn as much as I know. Sure I did go to a Tech Campus during my high school that was the "Computer Repair" class, but I didn't really learn much anything new in there. I did learn some things but most of what they mentioned I already knew based on what I learned myself.

- Mike.

Wes

08-27-2007, 08:25 AM

My parents didn't complete high school. I think they went to 11th grade and took off. And they're successful. I mean, they're not CEOs of a company or anything xD People say the higher your certificate (bachelors, etc etc), the more money you will make. It's really not true as my parents are making enough money to pay all the bills and have more left over to support me (buy me stuff, etc).

As for myself, I plan to graduate high school.