Holocaust ..., did it happen as it's told ...?

[online.education]

Do you think that Holocaust happened as it's told? More specially, do you think that only millions of Jewish people were exterminated? Is it possible that Holocaust was in a much smaller scale? Is it possible that those who were killed were mixture of different people?

What's your take?

[jen]

It wasnt just jewish people killed, it was many that didn't grace the society just right. there were gypsies, homosexuals, and I BELIEVE but am no positive the unemployed or beggars of the time.
don't quote me though, but i have read somewhere that it wasn't just that of the jews.
i've read that it was over 6 million people, and though I know depending on the country it'll emphasize greatness over folly

as in my american books, america IS WONDERFUL AND AWESOME except for those whole like depressions and the sewage problems early on and WE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM HURRAH sort of thing, and they make Germans come off as rather poor at the time, when really in the text books I use ive never ocne see the books say 'not all germans were nazis' ...there were also well known americans that didn't mind the views of nazism, like Walt disney, he was antisemetic i believe, and i think Henry ford was also not all that phased but I'm not sure - my history books never said that, but they sure did make the germans come off as bad

so maybe, I think they did a good job of exterminating some people - if not scaring more out of the country. they did fill rooms of people so tigh tthey couldn't move and use truck exhaust to kill 'em, and they did have the camps

so uh...I think quite a few, but it isn't like we can get exact numbers, - well maybe if every single person was documented that was sent into a camp, but i highly doubt that that happened...or if its information for the public. so
its a good question, I personally think they might have gotten to the 6 million mark

[online.education]

It wasnt just jewish people killed, it was many that didn't grace the society just right. there were gypsies, homosexuals, and I BELIEVE but am no positive the unemployed or beggars of the time.
don't quote me though, but i have read somewhere that it wasn't just that of the jews.
i've read that it was over 6 million people, and though I know depending on the country it'll emphasize greatness over folly


In many European countries, it is illegal to deny holocaust. It seems like a good enough reason for me to suspect that there is something wrong with the conventional interoperation.


as in my american books, america IS WONDERFUL AND AWESOME except for those whole like depressions and the sewage problems early on and WE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM HURRAH sort of thing, and they make Germans come off as rather poor at the time, when really in the text books I use ive never ocne see the books say 'not all germans were nazis' ...there were also well known americans that didn't mind the views of nazism, like Walt disney, he was antisemetic i believe, and i think Henry ford was also not all that phased but I'm not sure - my history books never said that, but they sure did make the germans come off as bad

IBM presumably helped to operate concentration camps.

[anon82]

Yes it happened. Your an idiot if you think it didn't.

[Ian]

you can be arrested in germany and a few other countries for denying the halocaust never happened

your stupid if you think that anyway

why would anyone make it up

and they didnt just kill jewish people it was like gays, disabled people, gypsies, ugly people etc

maybe not ugly people but it was MILLIONS of innocent people

[Tama]

For crying out loud, people, read the first post...Did the Holocaust happen AS IT WAS TOLD?

Personally, I believe we can't put a precise number on how many had died; it's hard to estimate such a massive genocide especially if the Nazis did attempt to cover up evidence of the Holocaust near the end of the war.

[zombiesky]

About 13,000,000 people were killed.
About 6,000,000 were jewish.

[online.education]

About 13,000,000 people were killed.
About 6,000,000 were jewish.

But were that many corpses actually found? Also what evidences, which prove that they were in fact exterminated, were found?

[Fiyero]

But were that many corpses actually found? Also what evidences, which prove that they were in fact exterminated, were found?

Werent many corpses burned when they were gassed to death to prevent people from finding out.

[online.education]

Werent many corpses burned when they were gassed to death to prevent people from finding out.

Ok, but ...

At the extermination camps with gas chambers, all the prisoners arrived by train, and were taken directly from the platforms to a reception area where all their clothes and other possessions were taken. They were then herded naked into the gas chambers. Usually they were told these were showers or delousing chambers, and there were signs outside saying "baths" and "sauna." They were sometimes given a small piece of soap and a towel so as to avoid panic, and were told to remember where they had put their belongings for the same reason. When they asked for water because they were thirsty after the long journey in the cattle trains, they were told to hurry up, because coffee was waiting for them in the camp, and it was getting cold.

According to Rudolf Höß, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200. Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon-B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing a toxic gas. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höß, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately. Joann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: "Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives." When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.

The gas was then pumped out, the bodies were removed (which would take up to four hours), gold fillings in their teeth were extracted with pliers by dentist prisoners, and women's hair was cut. The floor of the gas chamber was cleaned, and the walls whitewashed. The work was done by the Sonderkommando prisoners, Jews who hoped to buy themselves a few extra months of life. In crematoria 1 and 2, the Sonderkommando lived in an attic above the crematoria; in crematoria 3 and 4, they lived inside the gas chambers. When the Sonderkommando had finished with the bodies, the SS conducted spot checks to make sure all the gold had been removed from the victims' mouths. If a check revealed that gold had been missed, the Sonderkommando prisoner responsible was thrown into the furnace alive as punishment.

At first, the bodies were buried in deep pits and covered with lime, but between September and November 1942, on the orders of Himmler, they were dug up and burned. In the spring of 1943, new gas chambers and crematoria were built to accommodate the numbers.

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Gas_chambers

1. Not all bodies were burned.
2. Even if bodies were burned, that would not have necessarily burned bones into ashes.

[Fiyero]

Uh, I never saw all the bodies were burned.


At first, the bodies were buried in deep pits and covered with lime, but between September and November 1942, on the orders of Himmler, they were dug up and burned. In the spring of 1943, new gas chambers and crematoria were built to accommodate the numbers.

It said that crematoria were built which as far as I know of means that they were burnt.

[online.education]

Uh, I never saw all the bodies were burned.

...

It said that crematoria were built which as far as I know of means that they were burnt.

Like many people, I grew up believing that Holocaust did happen like it was told. It's a horrible thing that happened. Several years ago, I also visited Anne Frank museum and I felt great despair. It's a sad sad place and I can't tell you how sad, despairing that place is ...

But ... the more I learn about Holocaust, the more questions I I ask myself. For example, it seems that former Nazi officers didn't actually know how many people they exterminated. Also the whole picture of the Holocaust came to light several years after the end of WWII. Added to that, many countries make it illegal to deny the Holocaust. Some things don't quite add up ...

[zombiesky]

I actually had to chance to speak with a Holocaust survivior. He came to my Hebrew School. It was very interesting because he was one of few that escaped.

[Lunarflight]

This argument makes my head hurt.

What exactly is in dispute here? How many people died? Who was killed? Why it happened, how it happened?

Or are we really trying to argue that it wasn't REALLY the Nazis that killed everyone, but secretly it was the mole people, whose coup several centuries before was thwarted only by eloquent recitations of Hebrew, thus they started with the Jewish people first this time, taking them by surprise and wiping out millions before the rabbis made enough golems to drive them back, and the Holocaust is just a front to cover all of this up as the Jewish people prepare for the next time the mole men try to rise....?

Seriously, I'm not sure I understand the point of this debate.

[Chichiao]

well... all i can say... holocaust did happen... but do not believe people if they tell storys... but you can believe.. but just search the real facts up in books that are correct .. XD...


also if you say holocaust did not happen.. its against the law .. XD... cause it did.. some people still say it never happened... wich is sad... . thats all i gonna say for this ^^.

[Aranel]

I've been to Auschwitz (the two main ones, not the third - since Auschwitz had three locations), I've seen how large it is and I've seen the remains of the gas chambers. There were heaps more camps, also saw a map pointing them all out.

There is no doubt a large number of people died.

Oh and just to make you all freaked out, my history teacher is pro-holocaust (she apparently said to her AH class she thought it was a good thing) and that just sickens me.

[online.education]

Oh and just to make you all freaked out, my history teacher is pro-holocaust (she apparently said to her AH class she thought it was a good thing) and that just sickens me.

Did she give you reasons ...?

[online.education]

This argument makes my head hurt.

What exactly is in dispute here? How many people died? Who was killed? Why it happened, how it happened?

Or are we really trying to argue that it wasn't REALLY the Nazis that killed everyone, but secretly it was the mole people, whose coup several centuries before was thwarted only by eloquent recitations of Hebrew, thus they started with the Jewish people first this time, taking them by surprise and wiping out millions before the rabbis made enough golems to drive them back, and the Holocaust is just a front to cover all of this up as the Jewish people prepare for the next time the mole men try to rise....?

Seriously, I'm not sure I understand the point of this debate.

Holocaust is often brought up to justify certain actions (military actions and such) by Israel and other pro-Israel nations. It's also brought up to form policies. In other words, it is not just an event, but it is an ideology. The point is that that ideology might be established on fallacy ...