God?

[Fiyero]

Do you believe in God(s)/a god? I don't believe in God because of the horror of how this world has become. Where millions of people are going to die this year becuase of diseases and starvation. Theres a 12 year old kid in my school and he has cancer. How could your "God" do that to anybody.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

How could your "God" do that to anybody.

Test of faith.

I don't believe in a god. I find the concept outdated. It served to explain things people did not understand at the time (see Greek myths), and to control populations.

[CaustikMonsteR]

I don't believe in this God the Holy Father.

It's hard for me really take the idea of a man who has these "abilities" (ie. healing the sick, bringing back the dead, watching an entire planet, etc) seriously.

[Awakening]

I am proud to say I am a Christian. I've converted quite a few atheists to Christianity, both online and in real life, because I know a lot about the subject.

Anyways, to counter your arguments:

Spitfire- "I don't believe in God because of the horror of how this world has become. Where millions of people are going to die this year becuase of diseases and starvation. Theres a 12 year old kid in my school and he has cancer. How could your "God" do that to anybody."

Who said God did that to anybody? Everything that God created was good. Instead, these situations occur in the absence of human love and care. Under the Social Contract, we are responsible for protecting one another. This world provides everything we need in order to survive; people starve only because of our own greed and desire for self-preservation. While such events are sad, they do not affect the character and morality of God.

Here's an example. I am a good, compassionate, and loving person. Let's say I was a carpenter and built a house, into which I invited my friend to come over and visit. But to my shock, the roof falls on him while he's inside and he sustains an injury. I created the house...so does this make ME a bad person?

CaustikMonsteR - "It's hard for me really take the idea of a man who has these "abilities" (ie. healing the sick, bringing back the dead, watching an entire planet, etc) seriously."

Interesting.
You believe that mankind was able to defy gravity and explore space?
You believe that memories and emotions can be stored into a piece of mush within our heads?
You believe that the piece of metal in front of you is allowing you to communicate with people thousands of miles away?

But you CANNOT believe that a man is helping people out of pure love and sacrifice?
I don't follow such logic.

Remember that it's already proven that Jesus existed, all that we cannot conclusively prove is whether or not he was divine!

[CaustikMonsteR]

I am a good, compassionate, and loving person. Let's say I was a carpenter and built a house, into which I invited my friend to come over and visit. But to my shock, the roof falls on him while he's inside and he sustains an injury. I created the house...so does this make ME a bad person?


Well you did build the house but failed to make sure it was failsafe and not have the roof cave in. That doesn't make you a bad person, just someone who did follow proper carpenter procedures to make sure everyone remained unharmed.


You believe that mankind was able to defy gravity and explore space?
You believe that memories and emotions can be stored into a piece of mush within our heads?
You believe that the piece of metal in front of you is allowing you to communicate with people thousands of miles away?


Yes I believe in these things because they are technology. Ideas that mankind created, not some powers which flow out of someone's hands.

[webbdh2003]

I am proud to say I am a Christian. I've converted quite a few atheists to Christianity, both online and in real life, because I know a lot about the subject.

Anyways, to counter your arguments:

Spitfire- "I don't believe in God because of the horror of how this world has become. Where millions of people are going to die this year becuase of diseases and starvation. Theres a 12 year old kid in my school and he has cancer. How could your "God" do that to anybody."

Who said God did that to anybody? Everything that God created was good. Instead, these situations occur in the absence of human love and care. Under the Social Contract, we are responsible for protecting one another. This world provides everything we need in order to survive; people starve only because of our own greed and desire for self-preservation. While such events are sad, they do not affect the character and morality of God.

Here's an example. I am a good, compassionate, and loving person. Let's say I was a carpenter and built a house, into which I invited my friend to come over and visit. But to my shock, the roof falls on him while he's inside and he sustains an injury. I created the house...so does this make ME a bad person?

CaustikMonsteR - "It's hard for me really take the idea of a man who has these "abilities" (ie. healing the sick, bringing back the dead, watching an entire planet, etc) seriously."

Interesting.
You believe that mankind was able to defy gravity and explore space?
You believe that memories and emotions can be stored into a piece of mush within our heads?
You believe that the piece of metal in front of you is allowing you to communicate with people thousands of miles away?

But you CANNOT believe that a man is helping people out of pure love and sacrifice?
I don't follow such logic.

Remember that it's already proven that Jesus existed, all that we cannot conclusively prove is whether or not he was divine!

I agree with Awakening.

Caustik: Technology is just a material though, material things will all burn eventually.

You said:

Yes I believe in these things because they are technology.

You believe that memories and emotions can be stored into a piece of mush within our heads?

That isn't technology, it is what god created and gave you.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

Who said God did that to anybody? Everything that God created was good.

So when you read the Bible, did you skip the entirety of the Old Testament? Unless you wish to argue that the floods (which, as you're likely aware, caused a great number of deaths) and the destruction of cities that He found to be too amoral, among other simmilar acts, to be naught but good.

Some interpretations of Christianity even argue that Satan serves as God's helper, testing the faith and virtue of humanity (see (1) (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/DN-satanbio_02rel.ART.State.Edition1.3eeae3d.html) for one such interpretation). Lest we forget God asking Abraham to sacrifice his first child. I stand by my statement that the cancer could be viewed as a test of faith, and that should the child die, the maxim that "God decided it was his time to go." would probably be applied in some form.

Your statement requires either a large ignorance of the scriptures, or a rather unique interpretation of them.

[webbdh2003]

Voice 1:



So when you read the Bible, did you skip the entirety of the Old Testament? Unless you wish to argue that the floods (which, as you're likely aware, caused a great number of deaths) and the destruction of cities that He found to be too amoral, among other simmilar acts, to be naught but good.

About the first part, the floods were necessary at the time, like Noah's Ark, Noah and his family were the only people who believed in god and did his will, so he had to flood the entire population, except two of every animal and Noah's family, else he would've had to start over with Adam & Eve.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

So whilst God can't directly help or influence people because of "free will" (so far as my understanding of Christian teachings go), He finds that it is perfectly acceptable to kill off nearly the entire population when He doesn't get His way?

Am I to take it the same situation applied in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah? Interestingly enough, after the mother of the family that the angels saved was turned into a pillar of salt, the two daughters of that family would get their father drunk nightly so that he would have sex with them. All with the intention of keeping the family line going. So much for Leviticus.

("That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
"The next day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.' So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
"So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father." (Genesis 19:33–36)

[CaustikMonsteR]

Memories and emotions are things our brains can do through evolution. Not from someone who "created" the human race.

I'm sorry but I'm someone who sees religion of any kind warped and extremely biased. You can try and convert me but people have been trying to do that since I was a young kid.

----------------

In the bible, God tormented Job his entire life just because he made a bet with the Devil. Hrm....something doesn't sit right with me there. Oh and I agree with EBK about the flood. God didn't get his way...BAM! A huge massive flood came and wiped a lot of people out. I'm seriously glad this man is not a real being.

Oh and if he's real, where is God? Why doesn't he show himself to his faithful followers? Where does he live? And don't say heaven or in your heart, faith, etc and so forth, that's plain bull. I want physical proof. Which then leads me to my next question...where is heaven? Or hell for that matter.

Heaven doesn't reside in the clouds above the earth. We know space, the stars, planets, galaxies reside above our clouds and Hell can't be below Earth. There's lava down there.

[PolkaDottedPuppy]

i dont believe in god..
im christain (or supposed to be) and mii family is religious but me mii bro and mii sis hav common sense! we know he's not real especially after he has never helped us once in our sad sad life... how wuld a step dad almost killing an 8 yr old for not changing her 1 yr old bros diaper... god wuld have helped me if he existed as the "god" people think iz true... so how do I hav reasons to believe in him? hmm...

also yeah i know Jesus was proven to exist but he didnt exist as son of god maybe possibly his father was named god and he took pride in that and they spread rumors about him being the creater or w/e.. but the "god" ppl love i dont think exists... i hav worse reasons of thinking that but im not gonna say them out loud.. but how culd he be real? no proof.. and if so who made him? and the person b4 that? so on.. no way hes real

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

words

They reside in the spiritual plane, which you would not be able to see.

words

Again, test of faith clause along with free will. Supposedly your step father would receive his punishment in Hell (akin to his sins on Earth), and you would be rewarded for persevering and following God's will. It was a nice message for the serfs to allow them to think that all the work they were doing for the vassals would pay off for them in the end.

Jesus was actually just one of many "prophets" at the time. There were several such prophets, some even with their own apostles, resurrection stories, and other details mimicing those ascribed to Jesus (these events predating the supposed story of Jesus).

[PolkaDottedPuppy]

so he would make my whole family suffer his whole life and ruin our lives with his only punishment being going to hell? if that was true then that would just be torturing others so they have more of a chance to torture their children... through out the 8 years of terror while living with him, I've realized God isn't real... and our life has gotten worse and worse

everyone says god is supposed to help us in our time of need well he hasn't so I ahve no reason to belive in him so I'm not going to belive in him

[baltsportsfan]

everyone says god is supposed to help us in our time of need well he hasn't so I ahve no reason to belive in him so I'm not going to belive in him

Help and 'make everything bloody perfect' are different things. Death is not an excuse to stop believing in god. My mother was taken when I was 12, and for a while I thought the way you are thinking right now, but I realized the bible says he will help us through the hard times, not make the hard times disappear.

I am a strong Christian to this day.

[Martin]

so he would make my whole family suffer his whole life and ruin our lives with his only punishment being going to hell? if that was true then that would just be torturing others so they have more of a chance to torture their children... through out the 8 years of terror while living with him, I've realized God isn't real... and our life has gotten worse and worse

everyone says god is supposed to help us in our time of need well he hasn't so I ahve no reason to belive in him so I'm not going to belive in him

Well Life is ment to have pain and happiness, it makes you who you are and molds you so that you can be a better person. I believe in God and I am Catholic I have had bad moments but everyone does. Do you know anyone who lived a life of 100% happiness? nobody I'll tell you that.

[lulustu]

uuuuukay God. God is a big topic indeed, ppl spend lifetimes trying to understand, and yes I do believe in a higher source of existance who many call God
I dont think of God as a person like its depicted by man.
I feel God is something powerful like, energy? , somewhat? I dont truly know.
Pathetic yes, but that is what I believe

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

I dont think of God as a person like its depicted by man.

It is not "man" whom depicts a god as that, but various religions. Other religions agree with your view.

The concept of God is scarcely limited to Jehova.

[lulustu]

K electric blue. I think religions are made up of "man."
Though I think I get what you are saying that religions portrait God as something we can relate to.
also
"the concept of Go is scarsly limited to jehova"
I dont quite get what u mean?
Because in many religions God is pictured in many different ways(if thats what u mean)

[Roguos]

Most people already know that Jesus was proven to exist, but what proof do we have that he is gods son? Also there is a certain extent of proof that Jesus was married and had children, but yet the bible fails to metion this. So if the bible has lied about that, how do we know all of it wasn't a lie.

Anyways, I don't believe in god, I believe in more of a type of greater being that watches over you, but no god.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

words

Man does not perceive God exclusively as a "man" image. Some religions believe it to be a type of energy, as you've described. Various religions have their own concept of what God (or gods) look like.

Also there is a certain extent of proof that Jesus was married and had children

Would you mind sourcing a large claim like this?

So if the bible has lied about that, how do we know all of it wasn't a lie.

Most people know to take the Bible symbolically, rather than literally. There are countless "Bible contradiction" lists, evidence of stories added on to the manuscript (The "cast the first stone" story was not in the first edition), and other various aspects to prove that the modern day Bible should not be taken as a textbook.

You also have committed a logical fallacy. You allege that there is "certain extent" of proof (As in, it is unproven) to something, and then cite the lack of note of this allegation in the Bible as proof that the Bible has lied about the situation. That's not a logically sound arguement.

[Lexi]

I believe in God. I'm a Christian. I believe Heaven is in the clouds and Hell is deep down below the Earth in the boiling, bubbling lava. I've read the Bible, I've attended church, and I've even read stories of people who have been really ill or injured terribly, and died for a few minutes before waking up. When they died they saw a beam of light, they saw God. They felt a happiness like no other. They provided very detailed descriptions, how they could go through walls, how they could see their own body dead. One man was on his way to hell, and called out for Jesus, and was forgiven. I'm convinced their is a God, their is a Devil, their is a Heaven, and their is a Hell.

[Trilobite]

I've thought about it a lot. I've come up with so many of my own little theories, but none which I wholly believe. Because I just never know. I'm not a person of faith, I can't believe something if there's so little to back it up. But I always bear in mind it might be possible, but I'll never know.

I've often speculated about a energy unknown to science that flows through everything alive and inanimate, and it may or may not have a concience. But if it does it exists through us, and if it does give us conciousness, there's no reason to think there could be this energy existing in a higher form, unseen to us, that can think on levels we can't even comprehend, and can influence the physical realm. I guess that could be a sort of God. Because conciousness, I think, isn't something that science can explain, they might say it's all in the brain, but if that was the case everything would be going as normal but just as a chain reaction, not the existence of a life behind the eyes. *shrugs* I might be wrong but that's how I see it.

Don't get me wrong, I do study sciences and I think it can offer more realistic explanations to life itself and when I learn about biology and nature I get the same feeling of love and caring towards Earth and life as a person of faith does towards God. But there are these strange things that go unexplained.

My boyriend was hinting for a while for me to convert to Islam, but he's starting to understand I just can't, it's not in me to believe anyhing at all, I sometimes doubt the reality I exist in and just have to go along with it, because I think so deeply about things and think of the thousands of possibilities. I could never believe in a God, but there's no doubt in my mind that there's every possibility of a God/s existing.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

I believe Heaven is in the clouds and Hell is deep down below the Earth in the boiling, bubbling lava.

I'm going to take it that you don't mean that they exist there in the physical realm, as that statement would be absurd.

Post-death experiences

We've actually had this debate on religion before on here on VPL, and debunked those stories. People whom see these things are in a state where their brain is no longer getting feedback from their senses, and so their brain attempts to give the person an idea of what is happening to the best of its ability. This often results in the swirl of lights and colors many report seeing.

not the existence of a life behind the eyes.[...] I sometimes doubt the reality I exist in and just have to go along with it

Would you care to elaborate these two statements? The Agnostic sentiment came through, but these two seem rather vague statements for grander ideas.

[Trilobite]

Would you care to elaborate these two statements? The Agnostic sentiment came through, but these two seem rather vague statements for grander ideas.

Lol, I'm not even so sure, just thinking about it.

[ben]

Personally I am Atheist. I do not believe that there is a god, or that a god has anything to do with our existence. How ever, I am not against those who do believe, it is fine to have your own beliefs. It is pathetic though how some people will shove their religion down other's throats. If you have a belief, keep it to yourself, or your fellow followers. Don't be the christen who goes over to a muslim and starts blabbing and insulting.

[TVDinner]

I do not believe in god.
But I do not have any issues at all with anyone who does. If religion and the belief in a god works for you and helps you get from day to day, then that is a positive thing.

But I do not believe in it and personally have absolutely no reason to believe in a supreme being.

that being said, show me some proof and I am in. I will be god's #1 supporter. Until then - I dont believe in any religion.

[Lexi]

Let's stop fussing and fighting. Some don't believe in God and some do, it will always be that way. We will never know if God really exists until we are dead, so let's just shut up and move on. It's not worth wasting our breath over, we'll find out soon enough. :\

[Herb]

Let's stop fussing and fighting. Some don't believe in God and some do, it will always be that way. We will never know if God really exists until we are dead, so let's just shut up and move on. It's not worth wasting our breath over, we'll find out soon enough. :\

I don't see any fighting or fussing here, just some debating, hence the forum..lol

I don't believe in any gods or devils, heaven or hell. I think it (religion) is just something to help people get through life and it does helps to think someone always cares about you. I grew up in a very religious (Christian) household and was at church every Sunday til I was 13 or so. I started to see "holes" in the "story"...Things didn't match up and no one would answer my questions on why...I can't just believe something I can't see proof for.

I don't care if friends or family have different views as I do, but if they try and convert me or preach to me I get mad. I don't go around saying how I think what they believe is dumb so I would like them not to do it to me.

[TVDinner]

I don't see any fighting or fussing here, just some debating, hence the forum..lol

I don't believe in any gods or devils, heaven or hell. I think it (religion) is just something to help people get through life and it does helps to think someone always cares about you. I grew up in a very religious (Christian) household and was at church every Sunday til I was 13 or so. I started to see "holes" in the "story"...Things didn't match up and no one would answer my questions on why...I can't just believe something I can't see proof for.

I don't care if friends or family have different views as I do, but if they try and convert me or preach to me I get mad. I don't go around saying how I think what they believe is dumb so I would like them not to do it to me.

EXCELLENT POST!

[Herb]

EXCELLENT POST!

Thank you very much!

*bows*

[cpvr]

Thank you very much!

*bows*
He's corrrect, but what type of holes did you see? I don't believe in the religious junk either, and I just believe in God because there's been obstacles in my life that I don't think I'd made it out if it wasn't for someone watching over me. I don't know to tell you the truth, but I do know that I believe in god.

[Herb]

He's corrrect, but what type of holes did you see? I don't believe in the religious junk either, and I just believe in God because there's been obstacles in my life that I don't think I'd made it out if it wasn't for someone watching over me. I don't know to tell you the truth, but I do know that I believe in god.

Just that each "version" of the Bible is a bit different and the fact that things lose there original meaning through thousands of years of translation.

[cpvr]

So, basically, different writers write their own versions of the bible?

[TVDinner]

everyone seems to have different versions of what they do or dont believe. if god is real then SOMEONE has to be correct ultimately. but we will never know that in my opinion, so I revert back to not thinking there is any truth to it in general.

[Swifty]

Here is a great question posed by Plato in reference to a single monotheistic god:

1) Can God create an object (like a rock) that he/she cannot move?

Yes, well then he/she is not god since god has no limits.
No, well then he/she is not god since god again has no limits.
Conclusion, there cannot be a god.

Plato concluded that if there was truly an all powerful god that existed this question could never be asked. The fact that this question does exist means that the idea of a single god cannot be true.

**This question does not hold up again polytheism. One god can create an object he/she cannot move but another god could move. Example Zeus could create it and Hades could move it

[TVDinner]

or the answer to that question can just be - there is not god,lol

[Awakening]

As I said before, I am a 100%, devout believer in God. Specifically, the Judeo-Christian God. More specifically, I am an Evangelical Christian.

Let me first address Swifty.

Your biggest flaw is that these are simply rhetorical questions that are bound by human logic and understanding. You cannot use simple statements such as these to disprove an atemporal god, especially one that is omniscient. People need to stop trying to place human constraints on an all-powerful God. It's not convincing anybody. I'm not here to provide an excuse or answer to that question, as I have freely admitted that such thoughts must adhere to simple human logic.

Want to know why I believe in God?

The law of entropy.
Associated with the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy states that energy is essentially chaotic by nature. All systems of energy are initially both uncertain and unstable, and an external force is required to bring order to these isolated systems. The only way to describe this external force is by the term "God", and I leave that much to interpretation. Simply put, we cannot exist as we know it without some outside force bringing chaos to order in the form of creation. Mass and energy are not distinctly uniform by nature.

The alternative, evolution, is ridiculous and lacks proof.
Evolution has no proof. We have already reached Darwin's deadline for the negation of his very own theory (100 years without transitional forms), which happens to also be both sexist and racist. Not only that, Darwin was shaky in his own beliefs and mentioned some regret at his lack of faith. There have been no non-controversial discoveries of transitional forms in the fossil record. Look it up yourself and you will see what I mean. We should have billions of these fossils and yet we cannot find one. Evolution has little to no proof thus far and is based widely on speculation.

Using human logic.
My point earlier was regarding Swifty's use as to simple lines of human reasoning. And yet we can use those same methods to prove God.

Every painting has a painter, every design has a designer, every building has a builder. Logic then states that every creation has a creator.
Even biological organisms have creators. Eggs come from chickens, plants from seeds, sons from mothers, etc. Everything comes from something. There has never been an observable experiment of anything being spontaneously created from nothing. Then you might argue "Where did God come from?". Don't forget about the Christian assertion that God is not bound by time or space - he is atemporal, which allows him to have the characteristics of omnipotence in the first place.

Moral law demands that there be a moral lawgiver. It's silly to argue that morality was brought up as a necessity for human society because scientists have agreed that sociological evidence is lacking in this area. This inherent knowledge of right and wrong is still unexplainable at this point. And this is where God comes in.

Feel free to argue and I will bring up more points, I have quite a bit of stock.

[Swifty]

Awakening, that is the response I ALWAYS get from believers. The problem is that people do place human characteristics in God. My biggest example is that God is good. Who is to say he is good God could be a nasty devil bend on death and destruction. If you want to use that argument then you must say you have no idea what God is and also agree that God could be evil.

Law of Entropy...read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

Evolution, all of your arguments are very wrong. You are correct the law is racist and was used by Hitler to promote his view but doesn't mean evolution is wrong. Evolution has been proven in many forms. One example a butterfly that lived in Britain around the industrial revolution. Prior to the revolution the butterflies used to be mainly white. After they changed to black through the evolutionary process. That is because of the soot that collected on the walls, those butterflies that were black had a higher survival rate then the white ones. Other then that there have been numerous transitional forms found in the last few decades. If you want to beat up evolution use the poor arguments used today like the heart or eye cannot evolve they simply would not work in a lesser form.

...logic...again flawed. Complex protein strings can spontaneously form from amino acids with no apparent "creator". However that is a very good philosophical argument I do like that one.

The idea of right and wrong is an evolutionary trigger. Killing everyone you see is bad for your race. Believing in a God had an evolutionary benefit. Those homo-sapiens that believed in a god were more likely to fight with strength and conviction or work harder in their community. Take muslims for example they blow themselves up for their God, that is devotion. If God gives morality then that means a Christian here should have the exact same morals in any part of the world. If God gives morals then that means or morality should never change. And finally if God gives morality then...have you ever read the bible? (it is ok to stone your kid if he disobeys you...yeah k)

BTW
I just like to argue this stuff don't mean to peeve anyone off. Awakening you have a couple good points but your scientific arguments are lacking. Your philosophically arguments are dead on. I don't mean any disrespect so take my comments with a grain of salt.

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

Evolution...butterflies

Inaccurate. In that case, there was a white and dark version of the same insect. The white one had been dominant, as the darker one was easily spotted by predators. As the soot collected on the trees, the darker ones gradually blended in, leading to a reversal in survival rates.

It's an example of natural selection, but the species did not change in their coloring.

[Swifty]

Natural selection is the driving force behind evolution. Evolution doesn't mean the creation of a new species it simply means a change in a species. Either as subtle as the dominant color or more dramatic as a migration from water to land. However your details of the story are dead on

[SaiKaorii]

Hmm, I don't believe in God that Christians believe in, sorry. Even though my whole family is Christian, and I'm supposed to be as well...oh well.

I suppose it may be just my imagination taking over from writing books, and creating my own world and whatnot, but I believe in gods and goddesses; deities. Each one has control over a certain thing. When I look at someone sometimes, I can see sort of a transluscent figure of one of the deities that I believe fits them best, even if I don't know them.

I don't need help, what're you talking about with these mental problems? Lol

[xAnonymousx]

Nope.
I am completely atheist.

[Gir]

I do.

There wasn't a 'boom' and the world came to be. The 'big bang theory' is one heck of an idiotic theory, and sometimes, science is not purely scientific.

I'm Christian. I believe in God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ our Saviour. Sometimes, yes, I question His existance, since I'm at 'that' age, but I always come back, because there's always a part of me that knows that there is a place of peace for the spirit, where the Creator gazes down at us. Evolution is ridiculous, in my eyes. I'm sorry, I don't see any fins growing on a half-drowned rat, I'm afraid. D; If you're going to whine at me, don't reply to this post at all.

[Viral]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

[electric_blue_kirby]

Voice 1:

I'm sorry, I don't see any fins growing on a half-drowned rat

In all seriousness, is this simply a hyperbole, or do you think that is how evolution is stated to work?

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Again, He allows for free will. The presence of evil is not evidence of the lack of presence of a god.

[Emmy]

I do.

There wasn't a 'boom' and the world came to be. The 'big bang theory' is one heck of an idiotic theory, and sometimes, science is not purely scientific.

More idiotic than the thought that some all powerful being got bored and decided to make a world? Where did God come from? What made him?

I'm Christian. I believe in God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ our Saviour. Sometimes, yes, I question His existance, since I'm at 'that' age, but I always come back, because there's always a part of me that knows that there is a place of peace for the spirit, where the Creator gazes down at us. Evolution is ridiculous, in my eyes. I'm sorry, I don't see any fins growing on a half-drowned rat, I'm afraid. D; If you're going to whine at me, don't reply to this post at all.


The first section I will not comment on because I have no problem with it at all. I am more than happy for others to believe.

Evolution being that stupid and simple is just madness. If you don't understand it you cannot comment or hold views on it.

[compaq_xp]

I'm sorry, I don't see any fins growing on a half-drowned rat, I'm afraid. D; If you're going to whine at me, don't reply to this post at all.

You Must not know a whole lot about Evolution to make a comment such as that

[FuRom]

I would like to start off by saying, this is a very touchy subject for many people and it's really something that should only be talked about personally with close friends and family, but I'll share my views and opinions.

I feel that god doesn't exsist, but I'm open to hearing other people's opinions as long as they don't try forcing them upon me. My reasoning behind the "god doesn't exsist" logic is not because of the horrible things that are happening. My logic is more relevant than events that aren't involving me.

I say "I can't see god so he don't exsist"
Another person says "You can't see the wind, how do you know it exsists?"
I say "I can feel the wind, I know it's there."

It's simple, if there is no way to prove he exsists, I wont believe in him nor any other entity for that matter with out substantial evidence of their exsistance other than what can be easily ruled off as dreaming, hallucinations,
and/or vague.


As for how we came into exsistance, I don't know. I'd gladly say aliens created us or something because it's a huge possibility. As for the big bang theory, there is some really messed up logic behind that. The way a lot of people explain it the big bang theory involves the universe, but I say it only involves our solar system. I never really looked too much into it though =/. As for where we came from, why question it? It's bull. We're better off to figure out how we work and better ourselves by making ourselves better from what we know about ourselves.

The evolution theory explains a lot, but not what people really want to know. IE: "How did we come into exsistance?"

[TVDinner]

Like i have stated - I dont believe, but do not look negatively at people who do believe.

[ZOEgirl]

[QUOTE=Gir;13598]I do.

There wasn't a 'boom' and the world came to be. The 'big bang theory' is one heck of an idiotic theory, and sometimes, science is not purely scientific.



hey heres the Christian "BIG BANG THEORY"


The Big Bang Theory

God Spoke it and "BANG" it was there!!!! ::clap


now this is not to ur reply k this is for everybody!

God is awesome & is so not workin in partnership with the Devil b/c he kick lucifer out a heaven! God does no bad ok ppl hes so loving & compasionate!! he does however allow ppl to be tempted, but only to their abilities to with stand that temptation, even though most of us fail, he picks us back up! hes always there wether u believe it or not hes almighty & so big we could never comprehand even a small portion of his capabilities!!!


pm me if interested in knowin more!!!! 0=)

[Meat]

was up? everyone hows it hangin? I look around this world and see so much pain ,i feel pain .Just today i saw a friend Steve I worked with tell me about another coworker Jason whos son has cancer the little boy is only five years old !! this breaks my heart how could a loving god allow this to happen ?? Evil where does it come from ? suffering, why do we? We all have to give an explanation or awnser to these questions. but it seems that if so much evil is in this world that a good all loving all powerful creator cannot exist . But if evil exists then should we assume that good exists in order to now the difference? So if good exists then ill assume there must be some kind of moral law or something to base what we think is good or evil, most of us would i hope would think it is totally badevilcrazy to smash a little baby on hot concrete (unless your evil of course )you see we know whats really wrong and we know whats really right . I guess . So I think evil doesnt disprove that there is a Creator God , I think it supports it, but we have to reason thru these things its not all black and white. any way thanks for listening.---Matt

[jen]

I've never been in a religous family, so religion has never impacted me
my mom sent me to a catholic school from k-4th and then 7-8th.
I don't practice because when I went to church with my classmates they'd offer me peace and shake my hand, then come out and be terrible people. so
I never udnerstood and never wished to dig into the religion where so many people were fake to me

my mother practices wiccan and my father is agnostic, and I have followed suit in him, my brother isn't quite sure what he thinks of anything, he has really, no religious background, he just knows my mothers wiccan, my fathers 'there are higher beings but what they are it doesnt say' and then me who doesnt care.

I accept wholeheartedly some of my friends are religious, and I'll go tot heir church gladly and go through the actions, but nothing really seems to phase me, I've found no meaning for a god when I can be self relient, and when god hasn't done too much from me
I bounced from a divorce after my father leaving for weeks at a time to go do drugs/get ddrunk, from states to homelessshelters, to my mother's boyfriends who called me names, to trailers, to schools where my esteem has been broken, and now when it begins to mend, I realize for the most part I feel alone.

I dont understand much of religion, and maybe im this way because I take no embrace to a heavenly father, but I can accept that what I do is of my own doing and should I want it different, I must change iton my own

I guess, religion and god never matters, but I find religions rather interesting and learning of their cultures and traditions is interesting

[anon82]

Christianity is the only religion that is true. If you believe in differently, then I will pray that you someday learn the truth about God and Jesus Christ. If not, you may ultimately burn in hell :/

[stuffradio]

Some interpretations of Christianity even argue that Satan serves as God's helper, testing the faith and virtue of humanity (see (1) for one such interpretation)

Yeah, like every interpretation. Except he doesn't serve, he did serve. He was an archangel named michael. I'm pretty sure that was his name, if you doubt that he was an angel at first, then fallen to earth because he wanted to be god himself... then look it up.

[EatRamen]

He was an archangel named michael

Michael is a different angel xD

[Levi]

I don't remember the name of the person who said it, but the quote is roughly: "if God is small enough for me to understand, he's not big enough to worship." No one is making you believe that, but if you look into life's questions, you realize God isn't the only subject that's hard to explain. I'm a Christian, and I believe that Christ died for my sins because I can't save myself. I'm a screwed up person that's done some screwed up things, but he loves me anyway. The Bible is the best preserved book for it's age, and we have more copies of scripture passages than we have of most history books that historians deem credible.

I don't understand why people say the concept of God is so radical when a race of intelligent human beings are brought crying from their mothers womb into a world they can't explain...

I usually don't post on these things...to be honest, I'm not here for an argument, it seems opinions like mine are usually shut off quickly. I know my opinion might not be "popular," but that's hardly the point.

"A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw God's truth attacked and yet would remain silent." -John Calvin

[Tama]

I usually don't post on these things...to be honest, I'm not here for an argument, it seems opinions like mine are usually shut off quickly. I know my opinion might not be "popular," but that's hardly the point.

I personally find religion to be a very tricky subject to talk about with a group of people. There are those zealots who tend to rub some people the wrong way and tensions arise. You stated your two cents well so I'm sure you won't find any aggressive opposition... :)

Now if you posted something like this, you should definitely expect some kind of backlash.

Christianity is the only religion that is true. If you believe in differently, then I will pray that you someday learn the truth about God and Jesus Christ. If not, you may ultimately burn in hell :/

But you're fine, Levi. Don't sweat it.

[compaq_xp]

Christianity is the only religion that is true. If you believe in differently, then I will pray that you someday learn the truth about God and Jesus Christ. If not, you may ultimately burn in hell :/


I'm doomed......


:gun_bandana: :)
Church | Me

[sky665]

I'm doomed......


:gun_bandana: :)
Church | Me

Why does the church = shooting you? :P If it's because of a church you go to and you don't feel welcomed there, find a different one xP I for one know that some churches arn't as great as they should/could be, and so usually don't go to them even though I'm a christian =P Believing in God is one on one, you and him. I don't think churches should count as in 'Oh I go to church so I'm a Christain', because if doesn't mean much to go if your just spacing out most of the time just to say you go :O

But that's just me I guess, and I might be rambling now XD;

[Viral]

The Bible is the best preserved book for it's age, and we have more copies of scripture passages than we have of most history books that historians deem credible.

Actually, the Epic of Gilgamesh is older than the Bible, but has many stories similar to it (there are scholars who believe the Bible was inspired by the Epic of Gilgamesh).

[Lunarflight]

Christianity is the only religion that is true. If you believe in differently, then I will pray that you someday learn the truth about God and Jesus Christ. If not, you may ultimately burn in hell :/

Actually, depending on what denomination of Christianity, pagans only go to purgatory. :D

[Viral]

Actually, depending on what denomination of Christianity, pagans only go to purgatory. :D

According to Dante's Inferno, virtuous pagans go to purgatory.
Not sure about any other reference.

[Lunarflight]

I think according to Catholicism at least, you have to be Baptized before you go to hell. So pagans end up in purgatory.

Other sects of Christianity are different, though.

[Phoenixsong]

I bear no ill will towards the religious as long as they keep their religions more or less to themselves. I understand that people have their various reasons for believing in their various religions... for example, some people believe that God or whoever teaches them right and wrong (and then it is up to their free will to choose how to act on that knowledge, blah blah). Well, I know I try to do what I perceive as "right" in this world, but I'm doing it because I personally made that decision and not because I'm making what's outlined as the "right decision" in some book. Anyone who forces ANY of their opinions on anyone else, be those opinions religious or something else, has no respect from me, on the other hand. So yeah. Getting that out of the way.

Personally--and this is going to come out all wrong and probably mildly offensive, so I apologize for that in advance--I find religion to be rather selfish. Most religious people say that doing the right thing will get you to whatever their version of heaven is... and heaven is some great and wonderful paradise where they will be richly rewarded and generally have a wonderful time experiencing some form of personal pleasure. So, basically, they're only doing it for their benefit in the long run. That's... yeah, that's kinda selfish. Of course, that same argument can be applied to anything... what don't you do that is, in the long run, for some kind of perceived benefit? Even my "do right because I define it as right" attitude... well, I do right because it makes me feel good knowing I've done so... but at any rate, the existence of true altruism is another debate entirely.

There is a quote that goes something along the lines of "I would rather live my life as though there is a God and die to find out that there isn't than to live my life as if there isn't a God only to find out that there is." (no, I don't remember who said it and I'm too lazy to Google it right now) That's certainly one way of looking at it... but certain tenets of religion don't sit well with me, and so I'd rather just do what's right just because I think it's right. Besides, what if it turns out that, say, Christianity is wrong but the ancient Greeks were right? Practicing a set of beliefs unique to the Christian God would probably cause Zeus to be rather upset with me and have him pack me off to Tartarus. Doing right simply because I believe it is right is non-denominational and is probably good enough to land me at least purgatory no matter who's in charge, eh? :)

I don't know whether or not there is someone or something up/out there. As far as I'm concerned, both the scientific and the religious arguments have their strong points and their fallacies. At this point I've just decided to stop caring. I've found a path I like, so I'm content with it. And I also get bonus points because I'm pretty sure I've covered all possible bases with said path. :) (Yay, selfishness!)

...and that post was all over the place but it's almost three in the morning so there it's justified. [/notreally]

[sky665]

I find religion to be rather selfish. Most religious people say that doing the right thing will get you to whatever their version of heaven is... and heaven is some great and wonderful paradise where they will be richly rewarded and generally have a wonderful time experiencing some form of personal pleasure. [/notreally]


That's probably because mankind, in general, is selfish :P You don't see too many people working for the love of work- they work for money to benefit them. There's other signs of how we peopel are naturally selfish and want to be self served- but I gotta go now so maybe I'll edit this post later X3

[Phoenixsong]

Ehe, yeah... as I *did* actually point out in the same paragraph. Personally, I don't think that true altruism exists. But, again, another debate for another time.