Keith's interview [Archive] - Virtual Pet List

cpvr

11-09-2007, 09:37 PM

Here's the description of the interview thanks to Neocolours:

KYM: This is Keith here with me. Keith is the owner of Subeta at Subeta.org, which is a virtual pet game; and Keith, maybe you can tell the listeners about the game.

KEITH: Subeta is a virtual pet game. I’m sure that you’re all familiar with Neopets; it’s sort of similar. You adopt a pet, you play around with it, you feed it, you pretty much take care of it. But we have a lot of other things; unlike Neopets we focus on the social aspect of the site. You’re really allowed to talk about anything on the forums, we have [shout boxes?], our profiles are pretty advanced; we try to make sure that users can communicate with each other really well. We also have human avatars where you can dress yourself up. We really have a lot of features to make sure that users get to know each other better than they could on Neopets.

KYM: Now, one of the things about Neopets is that I feel that it’s getting a bit outdated. Just mentioning a few things that you said before; you said that Subeta is going to be going through some exciting new changes in the next few months.

KEITH: Yeah, actually, what we’re doing is, right now, we’ve hired a firm of programmers who are going through the entire backend; we’re recoding it all from top to bottom. And once that’s done, the site will all be in object-oriented programming, which means it will be easier for us to update, easier for us to send in new features, but it will also be easier for us to implement features like the world that we’re going to be working on. You’ll be able to explore the world with your human avatar: walk around, talk to other users, go into the shops and purchase items, go to other users’ houses (they’ll actually be treehouses) where users have set up their furniture, their personal belongings; their pets will be in their houses or their pets will be able to follow them around. Also… that’s one of the main features we’re working on.

Also, another thing that we’re trying to focus on is pet customization. Right now, on most sites you have a pet that’s a basic image, that’s it. That’s all you’ve got. We’re trying to make it so that you can have a Kumos with forepaws, or with blue eyes, or with a horn.

KYM: Wow, that’s quite incredible. And of course all of the programming, all of the planning, has to go into this of course.

KEITH: Oh yeah.

KYM: When can we expect a certain rollout, for example, like a preview?

KEITH: Well, as for the complete site recode, we’re hoping for the end of next month. Yeah, we hope to roll that out next month and then, after that, we can start working on the newer features.

KYM: Ok, wow. Ok, with games like Gaia Online and Neopets you can kind of customize you pet by, y’know, adding clothes, adding customization wings, changing the look a bit; is that what Subeta is going for, or are we looking for something a little bit different as well?

KEITH: Well, right now we’ve actually got human avatars similar to Gaia Online, where you can dress them up. It’s not nearly… you can’t customize them nearly as much. They can’t sit down or turn around, but that’s something we’ll eventually work on. As far as the pets go, we wanted to be far more advance than anything Neopets has. You will be able to, basically, have this species, but within the species have subspecies. Just like, you know, your dogs. You have dogs, canines, but you also have Pomeranians and German Shepards where, you know, some of them have different aspects and are completely different than any others, though they’re all still the same species.

KYM: Wow. I’m actually really quite excited just listening to all these ideas you guys have because Neopets... there’s a lot of Neopets clone sites. But to actually have a site that goes beyond that and to have something that really distinguishes them is really exciting, and I think really is a testament to the ingenuity of a lot of people. Were you instrumental in implementing these changes or do you guys have, like, a big team working in the background, throwing back ideas…. How does it work?

KEITH: Well, really, what we do is we throw back ideas together. We all get together and, actually, we have a staff IRC channel where we just sit and talk to each other all the time. And we’ll be like, “Hey, do you know what would be a really good idea? I think users should be allowed to have treehouses.” And I’ll be like, “Yeah, I think that’s really cool. And maybe they could do this.” And we’ll throw it back and forth for a while, we’ll make a special post in the staff forum, and we’ll start working on it and building the basic skeleton of it. I’ll probably start programming it, as well as a few other programmers, and then that’s how it gets started.

KYM: Wow. Very, very cool. Ok, one of the ideas that you mentioned before that I really, really liked was the concept of actually immersing yourself into a virtual world and being able to walk around, visiting the shops, actually having locations where you visit and explore; that’s what I really liked about these ideas that you’re throwing around before. Especially because we’re actually playing a game where we enter a new world where that new world is kind of palpable in a sense where you can explore and have a thing to do. Maybe you can tell us a bit more about that?

KEITH: Well, we’re building it and [unintelligible] is scripted in AJAX so all browsers can use it because with Flash, like Gaia uses, is only 90%... with browsers. Some browsers just can’t handle it, some computers are too old to be able to interpret it. So we’re doing it all with JavaScript, and it’s all really, really advanced, and we’ve tested it out to the extent that we know how it’ll work. And really, it looks like how… I guess you would put, the newer Pokémon games on the Nintendo DS; it looks similar to that. You walk around, and say you’re in the Dark Lands and you want to go visit Centropolis. You can’t just walk there because there’s a big ocean in the way. So you have to go find a method of transportation. We’ll have boats, we’ll have airplanes, we may even let users buy their own items to make themselves go places, we might let pets with wings bring you from place to place. But really, we want to make things as big as possible. The possibilities with something like that are endless.

KYM: Well, of course. And are we looking at things like real-time game play where a minute in the game will be like a minute in real life, or are we looking at instantaneous movements and connections and actions?

KEITH: Well, with things like shops it’ll be real time because users will go into the shop, and as things get bought, things are going to disappear. Really, other things…. The boats will be similar to games like Maple Story and World of Warcraft where they’ll only leave every 30 minutes or every 25 minutes so you have to get there on time, be ready to leave on time. So things will be based in real time.

KYM: Ok, and this is what has really got me excited: will you, in the virtual world, be able to see other players?

KEITH: Oh, yes! What we’re working on [is a] way to try and make it not crowded because of the way that it’s viewed, from the top, it’s hard… if you’ve ever played Pokémon Crater you’re familiar with how difficult it is to have an image that size and have so many people on. So that’s what we’re working on right now is trying to get up to where you can see everybody, but not be super crowded. Even in some areas of Gaia Online, when there’s a whole bunch of people on a map, it gets crowded and you can’t even see half the people. But in the end, we really do want you to be able to see everybody.

KYM: Ok, that’s an interesting… it’ll be interesting to see how you guys implement that because on the one hand you say you want to see people, and on the other hand you say you don’t want the map crowded. So it sounds to me like some people will have to be left out, or finding a way to really exclude certain… a certain criterion of people so the map just… there’s a constant… [unintelligible].

KEITH: Yeah, we might make where if you’re idle for more than 4 minutes, 5 minutes, your character might disappear off the map for other people. We’re going to have to do something so that it’s not… so that if there’re 400 people in a certain area it doesn’t show 400 people; otherwise, it’s just going to be a big blob of Subeta users.

Second part, thanks again neocolours (http://www.neocolours.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7554&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45):

KYM: Of course. With games like Subeta and Neopets, for example, one of the most interesting things that has come out of the past few recent years is how it really needs to evolve and update itself in order to stay competitive in an industry where there’s so many new games coming out. And I think what Subeta is doing is really exciting; to be able to really create this virtual world that we can immerse ourselves in and just explore and see everything…. Are you familiar with a game called Second Life?

KEITH: I am familiar.

KYM: Do you plan to make Subeta kind of like a quasi-Second Life where it’s virtual, you can walk around as 3D models, type things, you can build your own house; things like that?

KEITH: Unfortunately, the problem with something like that is it’d be a lot more difficult to moderate. And, well, Second Life, they don’t have moderation. With Subeta, it’s pg-13 and we still have to, at some point, draw a line. And we’d have to have our moderators walking around the entire globe every second of the day to make sure that there was nothing offensive, if we allowed users to build anywhere and do anything, which is the problem with that.

KYM: Ok. What about hiring volunteer moderators or just having criterion that you have to satisfy before you can build things, things like that maybe?

KEITH: That’s not a bad idea. Another thing with 3D models is that users would have to download a program and run it that way, which, you know, a lot of users are children and they’re not allowed to install programs on their computers because of their parents, things like that. So we’d have to run tests to see approximately how many users would be able to access it. Things like that.

KYM: Ok. That’s really exciting. Big question: a lot of games now, the really big ones like, for example, World of Warcraft and Second Life are just games that have an economy similar to Subeta. They also have a real world economy, that the items that you created in the game, the items you have, you’re able to sell, make a bit of money off of it. Is that something Subeta is willing to let its users do as well?

KEITH: Well, with World of Warcraft they actually don’t want you to sell their items, but people do it anyway. They do it with any game, including Neopets. But, really, we don’t prefer people do it. That might change in the future, but at the moment we really prefer people don’t because it kind of unbalances the game. Someone, you know, might get rich, decide they want to quit, and then they sell all their stuff, and then someone who hasn’t worked hours and hours gets rich in five minutes. But, I don’t know. I mean, it might change in the future.

KYM: What about, kind of, an ATM card or a conversion, just latching onto the idea that we were discussing just a second ago? I know Second Life has an exchange rate with the real world economy where you can just trade the points that you create in the game into, say, a USD dollar value which they can put into ATM machines and pull cash out. And that really gives an incentive for people to play the game and really just… really progress in the game.

KEITH: The problem with that is that money is generated in Subeta. In Second Life, there’s no money generated; people have to buy money to use money. In Subeta, money’s generated through games, through other areas of the site, so someone could buy $5 worth of money, play Subeta, make $600 worth of money and go spend that. And we wouldn’t really have a backup to balance it out.

KYM: Ok, I see, I see. Well, even though… I mean it is a long way off so, of course, things can change in the future. Subeta has come a long way since its inception; I remember when you guys first opened, the artwork, the game concept, it was very similar to Neopets. But then, just to see everything evolve from like, for example, you had the artist community and just everyone really getting involved with the game, the social aspect of the site, it’s just been quite amazing to be honest. And now to see that you guys are expanding into a virtual world where you can have an avatar that you can customize and you can walk around, it’s really just bringing the game to a whole new level. What do you see in the future, expanding beyond that?

KEITH: Really, we’re not really sure what’s after that. We’d like to expand on our avatar system once we’ve got the pet DNA system set down. And still, we’ll use the same sort of engine to make it to where you can change your human avatar to have four fingers if you want, to have a square jaw, to have a high forehead, be a little bit pudgier if you want. Because right now, every avatar looks exactly the same. It’s the as Gaia Online; every person looks exactly the same. That’s something else we’d like to change. We really want to give users the ability to customize everything. That’s why on the site we give everybody the ability to change their lookups, to the most of our ability to change the website (they can use their own CSS), etcetera. I mean, we really want users to be able to do what they want with Subeta.

KYM: Of course. Very interesting. Ok, apart from the customization that’s coming up, the backend reprogramming: in terms of artwork and things like that, do you see it changing drastically in the future? After all, you’re bringing all these new things….

KEITH: No, not…. No, I don’t see it changing drastically. We’ll still have the same art team. We’re going to try to get more art incorporated around the site, because right now some pages are pretty dull. So we’re going to try and get pages made a little bit more fancy, have them made a little bit nicer so where it’s now just text it’ll be actually nice to look at. But, not really. With some of the features, like the pet DNA, they’ll be changes in art where artists will have to submit their art a little differently, but for the most part we really… we’re really content with the style we have right now, and we’ll probably keep that for at least a while.

KYM: Now, when you guys enter the virtual world or having the place where you can actually explore (which I still really think is really cool), how will the artwork synch into that?

KEITH: Well, first it’s going to be mostly pixel-based, so we have a few of our artists already who are proficient at pixel-based art, and, like I said, it’ll be similar to a Pokémon DS game. You’ll be moving around, and your avatar, your little avatar, will be, either A) (hopefully not) a shrunk-down version of your avatar (it’ll be shrunk down in PHPGD, which is what it’s created in; so it won’t be distorted, it’ll just be a small version), or if we can work it out the correct way, which we haven’t been able to yet, we will make it a small pixel version of your avatar with the clothes that they’re wearing. The only problem with that is that we’ll have to go through and redraw everything in a pixilated version, but maybe that’ll work out. So everyone will be a smaller version of themselves and they’ll just be walking around. Also, everyone’s going to have their active pet (which you can choose on your pet page) following behind them if they so choose.

KYM: Wow, that’s really, really cool. Um, gosh, and just to see: ok, you guys have expanded here, you’ve got the done list, you guys have all this planned, do you guys maybe see console-type games in the future? Do you see… just merchandising, things like that?

KEITH: Well, we tried merchandising and it didn’t work out very well. I actually still have a few Kumos plushies. But, I honestly I… I really.… That’s one thing I didn’t like about Neopets, was when they started focusing more on how much merchandise they could produce versus how much they could produce “on site.” Yes, they release new items everyday, but new features are pretty slim when they’re released; things like that. So we try to… we really try to work hard on having things on the site rather than letting everyone cuddle with a… Dragarth.

KYM: With Neopets, I feel that they’re really focusing on the games these days, Flash-based games, and for things like Gaia Online they really focus on the RPG, role-play type thing. Where do you feel Subeta falls (or Subeta, sorry, however you pronounce it)? I know you guys started with a virtual pet concept and [unintelligible] the community, and then the artwork. Do you see more Flash-type games, or are you seeing a type of immersive world where people just really create their own economy and have fun doing that?

KEITH: Well really, lately, we’ve actually taken a… we’ve taken the name SubetaPets and turned it into Subeta. We’re actually not, actually, calling ourselves a virtual pet site anymore because we identify more as just a social networking site. Where you can have pets, you can have an avatar, but really, it’s just a place to meet people with similar… similar tastes as you. So… but really, that’s what we’re focusing on. Of course, we’d like to have more games, but in all honesty I think Flash is tacky. I mean, a lot of people enjoy it, the Flash games on Neopets are fun; the only problem is, they’re so incredibly easy to cheat, I’m sure within 10 minutes I could find a way to submit a score of 99 million into all the Neopets games. So, I mean, it’s really insecure, it’s able to be edited in memory, so as far as I’m concerned, Flash is just not something we can work with.

KYM: Ok, and so, we can turn to fansites, then. I know with Neopets it’s easier to create a fansite because they have games; you can have strategies on how to play the games, how to create neopoints for example. For Subeta, how do you think the fansites will operate if you guys are focusing more on the community?

KEITH: Well, right now the fansites mostly, that I’ve seen, mostly focus on…. Um, there’s a lot of Neopets ones such as [unintelligible] that mostly focus on the graphics: making forum sets, making profiles, making things like that. Telling you, you know, how to do certain quests, how much money to spend here, or how to restock; things like that. The most popular web sites, there’s two of them. There’s the item database, SubetaDB, and there’s the SubetaWiki, which is just a wikipedia type of thing that just has… just a sleuth of information about the entire site, it’s just got everything. And lots of users submit to it. It’s hosted by MBIF.net, I believe, and lots of users use it. So I really think that users will make sites that just are informative, but… uh… I don’t know. Informative.

KYM: “Informative.” Ok, very cool. Well, look, it’s been really interesting just hearing about where you plan to take Subeta, and just how it’s changed so much in the… how many years have you been operating now?

KEITH: We’re going on our, I believe…. Well, we’ve actually been around for, like, a thousand years, but in reality I think we’re on our second year of this version of Subeta.

KYM: Ok.

KEITH: Maybe two and a half.

KYM: So, in two and a half years you guys have come from “virtual pet site” to an artwork community to a really interactive site where you can meet people and just really get to know other people and meet people with similar interests to yours. And now we’re looking at a virtual world, so, wow, you guys are really moving at leaps and bounds, and it’s really exciting.

KEITH: I agree.

KYM: Thank you…. Look, Keith, thanks for all this with us, and we’ll definitely keep a close eye with what’s happening with Subeta over the next few months. And hopefully you guys can give Neopets a run for their money and kick them in the ass a bit so they can update the site, ‘cause they’re really getting outdated unfortunately.

KEITH: Yeah, that’s what competition’s for. I hope they update their site. I would love to be able to play again and not get bored in a few days.

KYM: Yeah, yeah. Well, look, I… I started playing Subeta over the past couple of weeks again, and I really do feel a community aspect to the site, and just the artwork… wow. Just looking at the artwork is really quite exciting and not generic. So, that’s one thing I really think you guys really have going for you so: good luck with that, really push, I hope you guys don’t forget the community as the site develops. And I hope you guys continue having all of these revolutionary ideas that really bring the game to a whole new level.

KEITH: Well, thank you.