Pet Site vs SIM Site

[Gabby]

Something I'm really tired of hearing is how a pet site and a SIM site are different.

Yeah, maybe one is more realistic than the other, but they still follow the same concept - a browser based game with a community, artwork, coding, writing, etc. Just presented with different ideas.

Why do people feel like SIMs are different than pet sites? (information from http://prosimunion.org/topic/3545303/1/)

I always considered pet sites....the type of thing where you have a virtual "pet" that you have to log in every day to feed/play with/groom/care for/etc. Or else it becomes unhappy/weakens/dies. Anything else would not be a pet site.

I can name legitimate SIMS that are like that!

I see pet sites vs sims as microeconomics vs macroeconomics. That's a gross oversimplification, but pet sites are generally more individually focused, release items/breeds/pets/games to keep people entertained, and people enjoy collecting things.

Sims are more focused on creating your "empire", competing with your animals, and using strategy. Generally, items aren't released just for the heck of it, and there are often very few flash/"secondary" games.

Out of your list:
-- Wajas and Tygras are both pet sites
-- WHILS is kind of a mashup of RPG and pet site
-- ^ ditto with sites like Wolf Haven

That's how I view it anyway.

I've still been on pet sites AND SIMs that incorporate both ideas.

Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but myself, but to me the difference between animal sim games and virtual pet sites is one of goal-orientation. In pet sites, there are no real goals beyond collecting everything you find interesting/pretty and socializing (this is where I would categorize Wajas, because you are, in a sense, "collecting" all the different color and mutation combos that you like). In animal sim games, on the other hand, either the game is providing goals, such as training your pet and placing well in shows, or you are making your own goals, like working toward perfect health genes.

I still don't even see how that's true, either. You can use a SIM game and incorporate apparent 'pet site' traits.

Could someone here explain to me in a logical answer particularly how they're different? Because it outrages me to hear this ignorance.
As I told @cpvr today, calling a SIM game different from a pet site is like saying a person's skin color makes them less of a person.

I would really love to see more people on both sides of the spectrum accept these sites more cumulatively. But until then, we need to face why we segregate the two.

[Toongears]

what neccesarily classifies a site as a SIM site, is sim short for simulation? lol i feel like a dork for asking...

[Gabby]

what neccesarily classifies a site as a SIM site, is sim short for simulation? lol i feel like a dork for asking...

LMAO! Yeah, SIM is short for simulation

[Toongears]

i hope someone can elaborate them what the difference is cuz im still lost, i would assume SIM sites are Pet sites lol

[Gabby]

@Toongears and the information I found is really useless.

That is a really interesting take on it all, WadeDogs. I'll try to respond as succinctly as possible with my own thoughts xD

Sim games, have not been around for all that long (not taking into account arguments about where the inspiration comes from...I mean you could go back to chess if you wanted to xD). Neopets, which probably put pet sites "on the map", was opened in 1999, which makes it almost 11 years old (it opened in Nov). The oldest sim I have heard mentioned is Ludus Equinus, which is now down, but it must have been around in 2003 because the owner (Li) was mentioned in Furry Paws' original FAQs (I know because I wrote the new ones, spending lots of quality time with the old lol). From what I understand, FP gained a lot of its popularity because Li put a link for it up during LE downtime. FP is most widely attributed as the sim that heightened the interest in the genre, and is arguably the one that launches the most new sim games out of its player base. Most of the sims I can think of off the top of my head were started by people who originally played Furry Paws, and the FP Other Games board is one of the best places to track new and upcoming games.

I hang around VPL and VPC quite a bit, and most of what I have gathered from that community is that they still consider pet sims to be the same as pet sites -- most of them don't distinguish between the two. I actually found a topic once where a player said something along the lines of "whatever sim people want to say, they're still pet sites" xD Considering the sheer size of the pet site community compared to that of sims, it becomes understandable why it's hard to find any information distinguishing the two.

Which would lead to the question of if they are indeed correct and sims are just part of pet sites. From the few topics I put up recently about how people define a sim vs. a site, what I gathered was that most people consider the difference to be this:

A sim is a game where the player is simulating an action (ie raising dogs), or "pretending to do something". It usually involves breeding, and is more competition based. A couple people have described it as sort of a "techno RPG" (thanks Restless XD)

A pet site is a game that usually focuses on pet and item collection. Usually pets are made up creatures, and do not breed. (There is a small genre of pet breeding sites such as Wajas, which is still a little fuzzy on a classification. Most users seem to agree that Wajas is a pet site and not a sim).

The difference is subtle, most certainly, and hard to define, but personally I would say that the two are more like cousins than one stemming from the other. Sim games have become too large to be considered a little off shoot of pet sites anymore.

So what, I believe, this all comes down to, is what the virtual pet site community has that we don't.

- They have a common base. Sites like VPL and VPC provide a common location that all of those involved in the genre can go. Sims have never had that (until now ^___^).
- They have "RL" status -- you can say to someone who doesn't play these games "It's like Neopets", and they'll probably know what you're talking about. You can't say "It's like Furry Paws" and get the same reaction.

But we do have some things that pet sites seem to be lacking a bit (noting that this whole post is generalizations xD):

- We have people willing to work together toward this common goal. From what I've seen, pet sites tend to be battle-driven (bad joke ftw!). Sometimes I feel like I need some combat boots to go into VPL.
- We have a broader spectrum of games. Pet sites seem to be very similar in basic structure across the board. Sim games up until this point have been much the same, but many (especially recently) are really starting to branch out and try new things.

SOO, the point to this really long post!

I don't think it's the terminology that's the problem. I think it's those two things we are lacking. As long as pet sites overpower the smaller sim game realm, and as long as we lack that common base, yes it is going to be difficult to find us. If we can fix that problem by creating this kind of strong common forum, and trying to break down the fears that some owners have with speaking publicly about their games, I think that sim games becoming a genre on equal footing with pet sites is just around the corner.

http://prosimunion.org/topic/3542879/1/

[vanillaeclair]

I actually think the same way as well.

I don't have the correct words to put in though, but are pet sites themselves a simulation? Simulation games are supposed to be games that represent or stimulate something from real life. In this case, pets or caring for pets. Isn't the word 'SIMs' just a short way to call simulation? If that's the case, there should be no different between pet sites and this so-called 'SIMS'.

I just thought 'SIMs' was some fancy category of pet games, but when I played various ones they just felt the same. :\

[Gabby]

@vanillaeclair @Toongears Some more information I found-

Updated the list. If I didn't add it, it's because as far as I know the site falls more into the pet site category than the sim category.

Defining a sim game vs. pet site is something that we're continually working on lol and I'd love some more community input if anyone has thoughts to add. From my understanding and from past conversations we've had, these are the distinctions:

Browser Based Simulation Game (Sim Game) -
Most commonly involves the raising of animals, but may be any game that seeks to mimic (simulate) reality or has a realism base (ie a site that deals with dragons but does so realistically is still a sim game). Games include some form of automated competition, and are generally based in 2-D graphics.

Text-Based Simulation Game -
Utilizes forums format, most commonly involves the raising of animals, and is based on reality. Includes some kind of manually recorded competition.

Virtual Pet Site -
Most commonly involves caring for fantasy creatures. The focus of the site is on collection (of pets, items, certain pet colorations, etc.) rather than competition, and is generally based on 2-D graphics. (By this definition Wajas, Aramii, etc. are pet sites.)

Adoptables -
Pets, creatures, humanoids, etc. in the form of 2-D graphics. They can usually be placed on other web pages, or may "grow" in stages, but otherwise are not interactive.

Role Playing Game (RPG) -
A game in which the player controls one or more characters and plays out adventures, quests, or even daily lives of those characters. When in a forums format, called a Text-Based RPG.

Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) -
Similar to an RPG, but on a very large scale, in which thousands of players interact with each others characters, usually in 3-D graphics.


Of course not every game fits into one of those, and many many games are crossovers. Crossovers between sim/rpg and sim/pet site are increasingly common it seems. Those also aren't official definitions by any means, so if anyone wants to add or edit feel free ^^

http://prosimunion.org/single/?p=308810&t=3960995

[Centauri]

To me, a pet site is just one category of sim sites (pet sites are simulating taking care of a pet, heh.) I don't really see what the big deal is

[Roconza]

Pet sites are not sims. They don't really simulate caring for pet because the whole caring for pets part is commonly optional. When was the last time to went to neopets and said to your self "first thing I better do is feed and play with my pet!". In most pet sites there is NO penalty for ignoring your pet. More users care about customizing pets then really caring for them and some player ignore their pets completely in favor for other parts of the site. While yes pet site should be about virtual pets they really are not when you get down to it. The name is more ironic then facial. They may have started out trying to be about owning virtual pets but they really kinda don't do that.

Here is the thing while your counter point is pet sites are simulating taking care of a pet there really is no benefit to it. In contrast playing a sim were you have to care for your pets so you can do mainly pet related things such as contests, shows and breeding. Sim focus more on the pet in a ironic way then pet sites.

Take a pet site that forces you to take care of your pet or they will block you from some features. Compare to a sim were you activly want to keep your pet maintained because it ties in to the features as apposed to being some thing keeping you from playing the game. Hell some pet site and pet site player here have openly stated caring for your pet is the most pointless part of pet sites. Some players even suggest removing feeding.

Neurogalaxy I have yet to find a reason to feed or play with my pets and I don't even think they have hunger/mood meter. I have sent the bulk of the site never doing either without any effect.


In my opinion there like apple and oranges.


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a browser based game with a community, artwork, coding, writing, etc.

I'd like to point out that these things are all common to almost every online game browser or not. While your at it by your logic pet sites are rpgs since %80 have battling and leveling up. See how that works it's not black and white pet sites are their own genre and should be treated as such. It has many aspects and features of different genres but you can't fairly label it a single type of game because it would be untrue.

It's like fitting a square block in a hole meant for a circle.

[Avalanche]

Pet sites ARE sim sites! Sim is short for simulation, which is basically means 'fake' or 'almost real'. Virtual isn't far off from this definition. Petsites are SIMULATING what it's like to have a pet, and take care of a pet in essence. All petsites are simulation sites or sim sites. Not all sim sites are petsites.