Industry pushed me to quit.. ;-;

[Ixyra]

You make a good point @Elz - however I didn't have a tutor! I attended a great university.

[TheTeen]

Having a knowledge of what a horizon line or the proper "formulas" for math doesn't make one a better artist either. I know of all the terms you posted, Ixy, having taken many art classes in high school and college, but yet I know quite a few of those "untrained, underpaid" artists here who have a better eye for art than I do without knowing any of the proper terms. What do you say to this girl:

http://www.artakiane.com/

No teachers, but yet she has probably a better style in her art than I would say anyone here. Art is not something that can generally be taught. Lessons may quicken the progress, but ultimately art comes down to how the artist sees the world or how they wish to see the world. It is about experience not about how much schooling you have had. In fact, if you stick solely to the schooling, your art more than likely lacks the life in their art. Many of the greatest artists of history didn't create by the rules set before them. They bent rules and created what they thought would "enhance" the scene.

Every artist is going to need practice, simple as that. A person could have a Master's degree in the arts yet still fail to put anything of meaning on paper without any practice. I don't see why an artist can't make a little side cash with their practice pieces by working on petsites. I have been with VPL for many many years and have watched personally the growth of artists in their petsite work. Once they have improved to a point, they move on to bigger better opportunities. VPL is merely a training ground.

[Elz]

@TheTeen - I wouldnt say that girl is the best example; haha - Shes incredibly talented but its so rare for young children to literally be 'prodigies'. Shes better than a lot of artists who've worked all their life on art so I'd say its very much a gift what that girl has. Someone like that will never need a teacher.

But I do agree with most of your post; Im in a terrible art degree right now and it only takes time away from my art, but my mother demands the qualification
Though; I've always wished to be taught at least something where I 'learn' - Ive not actually taken a single thing away from this design course which saddens me, but people like @Tama go to a school where this teaching is also somewhat mandatory and greatly aids her drawing skill. I wish I'd get life drawing classes and lessons on colour theory; anything I know is from practice and going out of my own way to learn things online. XD;
And VPL is definately a training ground. The way I see it, when you reach a point in your life where you want more from your work, you'll hop on over to conceptart.org - And try to work on maybe indie games to start off with. Im currently.. really not ready for that move yet. 8D
@Ixyra - Haha, what I just typed above kind of applies to your post too; I wish I had a good university. There wasnt actually a game design/game art/concept art course anywhere near me, so I took 'design'. Terrible stuff.

[Klaora]

Honestly, it's such topics as these that make me so wary and less confident in my work. It's why I've yet to offer commissions for real money online, save for one or two projects as I'm absolutely terrified of eventually getting royally screwed over in a number of ways.
It seems to almost be the norm even in the professional world, though. Perhaps not as often as over the internet, but often enough that there's a whole website dedicated to clients who think they know better.
A lot of people don't see it as real work, but more of a hobby. That and the fact that no physical item is being made is at least part of the reason why people feel like they can get away with so much to those in this industry. In the end, as an artist, I think one needs to protect themselves first and make sure that everything is properly known and understood between both parties in regards to payment and edits. Leave no room for a gray area.

Just my two cents on the topic. Maybe I'll eventually come out of my shell whenever I feel less like a rabbit amongst hounds.

[TheTeen]

@Elz - Oh I agree she is an extreme example. But my point is people with the eye for art and the patience for practice will be able to pick up on those "formulas of art" whether they were ever taught or not. I believe experience to be the greatest teacher, whereas, for some not all, learning the "rules" or "formulas" can actually prohibit an artist. It all depends on how a person works. I've seen many, who went taught the rules, are then put into a box by those rules. It actually stops them from thinking outside the box.

[design1online]

Why do people undervalue their work? Would you expect a programmer to charge $2 an hour for programming? No, of course not. As a programmer I expect to be paid for the quality of my work and I don't see how an artist is any different. If your art is top quality don't sell yourself short.

[TheTeen]

@design1online - Is it really a matter of underpricing (in some cases yes, but not most), or is it a problem of demand?

Blizzard artists get paid the money they do because they produce quality images like this:



While I realize the work that goes behind many of these artists items/pets/ect. I also know I can go anywhere on the internet and find some pretty good anime/cartoon style art for very cheap. There are so many different people around the internet that can easily mimic a petsite style that it has kept the demand pretty low in terms of just how many are able to supply. This style of art, whether it be petsite or other genre isn't really a money making niche. I have known many many artists that do it for the experience and some side cash, but that is really all this niche was meant to be. Once they've got the experience they progress to higher level art forms ect. As hard as it would be to say, I don't even know most (there are some) artists could get more than $5 here on VPL for an item as buyers would simply go to DA or elsewhere and search out the many cheaper artists around.

[design1online]

As hard as it would be to say, I don't even know most (there are some) artists could get more than $5 here on VPL for an item as buyers would simply go to DA or elsewhere and search out the many cheaper artists around.

I've worked with an item artist who charged $11 an item and I'm pretty sure she has an account on VPL. I typically don't pay less than $25 an image and my main artist is anywhere from $150 - $250 an image and I commission her several times a month. My point is if you're looking for someone to pay you $2.50 an item then those are the kind of clients you're going to find -- not the ones that can (and will) pay you what you're worth.

[Ixyra]

@TheTeen

I dunno. I don't see any "style" just an eye for observation. Which if correctly understood at a young age gets you prodigies like that. It's impressive but that to me isn't great art at all. It's just a kid that knows how to copy faces really well - obviously is improving with age but it's still copying faces with some small edits here and there.

Also that Blizzard background is a matte painting with a rendered cinematic model....Nothing in there is painted except maybe some extra VFX. Now THIS is a fully painted Blizzard TCG image.

Also also they get paid hourly like normal jobs whether or not their images are used.

@Elz
The school I went to is literally the best art major in the world as far as public schools go. Dreamworks gave them ~$300,000 grant just because they hire the students that come out of there all the time and wanted them to gain even more skills (aka they paid for the entire Maya lab). If you're in CA i highly recommend it because there's a %95 employment rate after graduation (also considering the companies that hire off of them are DW, Blue Sky, Zynga etc).
I was lucky enough to be part of the program for 2 semesters until I got broke :') - The school's name is San Jose State University, but the major as their own website which I have since forgotten.

They admit that not all art schools teach what's needed - a perfect example is our "Fine Art Major". We're in competition with them (we're "Animation/Illustration Major") and we always win because they don't teach those artistic basics XD They're super real and super awesome and if you have the money I totally recommend it for every artist!

[TheTeen]

@design1online - That is your choice, and I think that is certainly needed. But my point is for the quality of artwork you can get or even want for a petsite, you can find that all over the internet for similar or cheaper prices to what is on VPL. Remember Daichym from Lurapets. They had some of the highest quality artwork, in my opinion, for a petsite, and I doubt they were even taking $11 dollar per item. I could be wrong. However, artists may have a certain worth, but for this style of art, you can find cheaper by just searching the internet. What owner wouldn't want a cheaper price if they could get the same quality from two separate artists?
@Ixyra - You must not have looked through all of her art as many are not even "just painted faces." There is a story behind most every piece, and really some out of this world designs. There is one where she flawlessly mixes all races into one "mother of all mankind" piece. Of course there are painted faces, but to say her art isn't great really misses the mark. Look through all the images at images of space or even her images of people. There is an emotion maybe just I feel behind every pieces by just looking and observing the lighting she chose to use or the colors. That is not something I think can be taught by knowing proper anatomy.