Reasons Why Not to Join Celendria (as user or staff)

[Drea]

Becca, with regards to your statements about the art, of course a little deviation is to be expected, however the guidelines that were originally set for Celendria (and the ones that are /still/ being linked to) are no longer even being followed. I have an msn conversation with the head artist that proves this to be true; apparently the style was changed from "one strong bold highlight with two, maybe three layers of shading" to something else entirely, and I was never notified, and the expectations were never formally stated to be changed. I'd seen items of extremely varying styles be accepted when my own, which followed the style guide to a t, were rejected entirely.

Now, I don't personally believe this to be pickiness, because the whole idea of Celendria's artwork /is/ consistency, according to the art head, owner, and other members of core staff. But if consistency is the key, why is there such a lack of it? In my months of working there I struggled to maintain what I believed to be the style even after being critiqued by the one who developed the site's style. When I was sure I'd gotten the style right, it was turned around and edited into something completely different, something that didn't even fit the style guide. I'm not the only artist who has had this confusion, and I believe that when we mention the inconsistency, it is not an attack on the artists of the site, but an observation of how the style is so loosely thrown around by the head artist.

Joy, as for why they don't make the unofficial rules official, I have no idea. I'd gotten warned for having a youtube video autoplay when it wasn't in the rules that it wasn't allowed, and upon asking for it to be added, the staff stated that it would be, but it never did make it into the official rules. As far as I'm concerned, you can't tell a user not to do something based on the fact that it is "common sense" when really it isn't common sense at all. And when it isn't even in the rules, how can you expect users to conform?

[Elz]

I think things changed a lot since I worked there. I never really had any problems but moved on to somewhere else after a month (not because of Cele, just Aywas had better pay, and money matters more to me). However, I personally feel it a -little- rude discussing how much I get paid, so its very.. hush. I wouldnt want to tell everyone how much I earn because its not really anyones business, but I do ask Slash's permission if I tell the occasional person. c:
Since Cele is paying the artists, I think its up to Cele to decide whether the information is mentioned or not; and I know it feels off but its.. bah, just how I feel I guess.

As for the "Correct anatomy and lighting is often entirely ignored" - That really is your opinion; theres a lot of sites with 'wrong' anatomy and lighting, but some sites are cartoony, stylised, whichever. I think your main problem here is that you're disagreeing with the head artist; which theres not much you can do about. If she critiques things in such a way, its her place as head artist, and you're beneath her so you either deal with it or leave. Personally, I'd leave if the site annoyed me enough, and find somewhere else to go. At the end of the day it's their site and they can either listen to the important people (the members) or they can sit and watch their site die. It'll make no difference to you or.. anyone else. There'll always be another site to flock to.

My point being; you shouldn't have needed to make the thread. Making a thread will make no difference, as anyone who signs up as a user or staff member will see the flaws and leave.
Sorry you feel so angry over it all, though.

[kami]

@Elz, for 99% of your post, I refer you to all of the replies above.

At the end of the day it's their site and they can either listen to the important people (the members) or they can sit and watch their site die. It'll make no difference to you or.. anyone else. There'll always be another site to flock to.

This is the problem. Yes, it is their site but that doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want. What they did is what I would EASILY consider mental and emotional abuse (even cyber bulling). And NO that is NOT an exaggeration of ANY SORT. Personally I have never felt so stressed and upset in god knows how long. I was constantly unhappy and depressed and often hated going online because of it. (My family and friends even noticed a difference in me.) Those feelings were real to me and many others. Sure, you could say we could leave or quit staff, but it wasn't that easy. Many of the staff members, including myself, HAD to stay. We needed the money and literally NO ONE else was hiring/commissioning us at all. We had (and some still have) no other place to go.

you shouldn't have needed to make the thread. Making a thread will make no difference, as anyone who signs up as a user or staff member will see the flaws and leave.

It has already made a difference. I've already gotten a few people coming privately to me thanking me for making this post. Even if you do not see it's worth, others do. Like I said earlier, this was not made for the staff, users, or any individual, but for the community and any onlookers as a whole. What they do and take from this is up to them. You may feel it's pointless, but I do not.

[Mentalist Traceur]

Tangent: if most people feel their employers have more right than them to reveal how much they get paid there's going to be much back-sliding in regard to workers' rights in the next few generations. No one said it had to be shared, just that it's not protecting privacy to stop someone from sharing something they want to share, and that if people do want to discuss what they are being paid or payment policy in general publically, that shouldn't be forced into private-ness.

Information leads to power and control a lot more than anything else does. Giving that control to others out of goodwill/trust, or whatever, is fine, but simply surrendering the right to control over information that concerns you just as much as another party unilaterally to that other party is dangerous.

As for "making a thread/post makes no differnce" sentiments - I've got nothing against you personally, but take your can't-make-a-difference position with you and clear the way in the outside world for the people who know how change happens. Not a damn thing has ever improved or changed in the world except by pure accident from people who said 'fuck it I can't effect this situation'. Things are changed almost daily by people who stand for what they believe in (sometimes that change is for better, sometimes not, but that's determined by what exactly you're standing for). Sometimes that change is miniscule, and just as often if not more often, people fail to make the change they were looking for. But the changes that do happen happen because someone somewhere decided to stand for them, and if no one did whenever things seemed unchangeable, we'd be living in a very shitty world right now.

[Martyn]

Just wanted to add this to the thread:

I got told off for 'abusing' a glitch on the site, via the forums. Though unforunately, I didn't know it was a glitch (it was actually a programming issue) and for that I got told off by Lilly for adding the [ img ] & [ / img ] to her Avatar Solutions post on the forums. Since I was being kind, I thought nothing had been done wrong, but supposedly only Moderators were supposed to be able to edit posts. I deleted my post on the topic, which was saying something similiar to "I added the img tags for you Lilly! : )", because I was trying to make sure people didn't know there was a glitch/programming issue on the forums (I told staff members, if I am correct.) Which in turn, made Lilly give me another mail about it..

I can't remember what happened in between, but I ended up getting a warning later on and then I went to the forums about that.. I made a topic asking why I had got a warning (other stuff was on the topic as well) and I discussed it with people ect.

And then from that I got a message from Raychul on the staff forums, here is the message:

"Due to you receiving a Warning as Staff, we're going to have to remove you from Staff at this time. You're welcome to continue playing the site, and we may even hire you back at a later date to continue making music. I'm glad to have received a few songs from you; and the proposition you put up regarding the rights to music is just fine. If you want to withdraw rights or anything, I understand. But I would ask for the money paid so far to be returned should you decide that, and you'll be free to sell the songs you made to other sites that way.

Again, I'm really sorry. It can't be that our Staff are walking around with Warnings; it sends the wrong message to our users. I hope you understand where we are coming from on this issue, as I assure you it's nothing personal. I'm here to talk if you need to vent about stuff. <3 "

After that she did not bother to reply to any of my messagee, via the staff forums.

"I'm here to talk if you need to vent about stuff. <3"

Just to make sure people know, I'm not annoyed at Raychul at all.
What I am annoyed at is the fact that I got removed from staff because I got a warning...

A lot of people, including myself, think that removing a user from staff because they got a warning is a bit unprofessional.
To be honest, I personally think that it's a wierd thing to do, since users can only see thier warnings, they cannot see other users warnings.

Oh and I got told that some staff members on Celendria thought I was annoying... some other people have said to me that they find me "Cute" and "Adorable".

Even though I've said the things above, I may have had my little mistakes.
Like when I think I'm right and everyone else is wrong, on occasion I was correct.
(I have talked to people about my opinions on the right/wrong situations and some of the things I disagreed with, other people seemed to not like them too..)

That's all I can remember just now.

[Ardy]

From a random user's standpoint, i've never in-depth played Celendria or talked on the forums so I don't have any sort of biased or complaints.
I signed up, and then immediantly left because of what I saw as a user. The navigation was difficult and the news updates were few and far between. There wasn't much to do BESIDES sign up that immediantly caught my eye.

The staff can defend their actions all the want, lord knows people do. But It struck me as a site that won't ever get out of beta, and will slowly decline until it gets sold. So dear staff, you have alot of issues to work out if you want to get anywhere. And it sounds like you're just making it harder than it has to be.

[clubanimon]

When I joined Celendria I was sort of surprised by how quick to chastise the mods were. I was new and asked about how things were sold and trade in user shops since I couldn't find a guide on it. I then asked if anyone wanted to trade an event item with me since I have a couple of the rares and I wanted a pen. I was yelled at. But I had read the rules and there was nothing about what the shout box not being able to be used for trading.
After that I clammed up on the shout box. Which was a shame because the forums were nearly impossible for me to navigate.

I didn't talk to people, I tried to figure out the jobs, but that was mostly trial and error on me own part. The jobs kept changing, I didn't know how to make money, my poor companion was nearly always hungry as I tried to run back and forth between islands, which cost me money of course.

I just never felt welcome so I left.

[Joy]

The rule situation is ridiculous... They can add new rules, but to "yell" or warn members over things that aren't even located on the rule page (or tos/tac) is unprofessional and lazy on their part. =/

It seems they're chasing people away with that sort of behavior.

I'm a little unhappy with the fact that once Celendria is ready to open, the site will be wiped. I specifically remember them promising the userbase that this will not happen again.

So... I hope they read this thread so they can correct what needs to be corrected.

[clubanimon]

How can they have a wipe while they already have a cash shop open and selling items?

[Joy]

I thought about that... and I assume cash shop account possessions or upgrades will not be part of the reset.