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How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on petsites

Discussion in 'Virtual Pets Chat' started by Organic, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. Organic
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    Organic Supporter VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    Since this has been an issue recently I thought I'd like to get some insight about how people feel about this.

    How do you feel about joining a petsite that did not have the proper security?

    My opinion:
    I use different passwords on all sites that I use so I feel it leaves me less susceptible to being seriously implicated by these things. On the other hand I guess I trust games that I join to have my best interest and when they have the knowledge that they do not and don't IMMEDIATELY do something about it as soon as they are aware I feel outraged and betrayed. In general I think people keep a few different passwords and a lot of their things are connected. The thought of others who have had their info stolen terrifies me. What if their password is the same on their e-mail? What if their bank accounts are attached to the said e-mails? What if children play and aren't aware of these risks and use their parents e-mail? Yikes, it's scary for me. Just wondering how others feel.

    Also, how do you feel about ignorance rather than knowledge? I mean to say how do you feel if a site that you play is entirely ignorant that they do not have the proper security? Do you have understanding for that? What if the site is entirely aware and has been threatened yet they choose to ignore it and pretend like nothing is wrong? ((That second comment does NOT pertain to grophland btw so no attacks please)).

    My opinion:
    If a site legitimately doesn't have knowledge of their flaws and no one has made them aware I don't feel betrayed. I still hold them responsible because it was their job to protect the users but stuff happens. Those who are aware of their issues and do not take immediate aggressive action as soon as they are aware... well they make me angry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  2. Peanut
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    Peanut Member VPL Member

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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    I refuse to join any site that doesn't know good security. I tend to see if the programmer has a reputation or not, but if the site looks legit (great art, great layout, great everything), I will probably trust them more.
    As soon as I learned about SQL/XSS injection, I researched everything (already knew SQL injection from last year) and fixed every single page on my site.

    And the scary thing for me is I don't use different passwords on sites because my memory isn't that good at remembering 5 million passwords and whenever I write it down on paper, I will most likely lose it or my dad will throw it away since he's a neat freak >.> So if my password was available for a hacker to see, I would definitely be VERY iffy on that.
     
  3. Organic
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    @Dyl

    I'm glad that your site is safe :) <3 About using different passwords I'm pretty sure their are programs available that will generate different passwords for you and save them so that you can copy and paste them. It might be a good idea. With all the stuff going on here it's made me really security paranoid. I'm considering changing my whole arsenal of passwords since I unfortunately had an account on both Grophland and MysticalEquine.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2013
  4. Peanut
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Yeah. It should be. :) Put a lot of hours into the security.
    Oh wow. I didn't have an account on there. Well for pet sites I work for, I'm thinking about changing my password as well even though I have full trust in them.
    But you never know if hackers might be able to do something. Always got to be alert. :)
     
  5. Organic
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    I mean there is ALWAYS someone who can crack it. There is a point though when you've done all that you can do. There is also that point where you just aren't being safe and some kid at a computer can easily figure out how to get that stuff. I think we all need to hire Kevin Mitnick to come check our security lol XD

    Then again his website has been hacked before also lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  6. Peanut
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Who is Kevin?

    And I don't get what hackers get out of hacking sites. It's completely ignorant and doesn't do anything for them or the owner or the users.
     
  7. Organic
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    Organic Supporter VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Well I'm not wild about what the Exoser guy is doing but I can't lie that what he is doing is effective. He had said he contacted the sites before taking them down privately and warned people about their security issues. I guess it was after he/she was ignored that he took the site down and made it common knowledge that they were lacking. I don't like that he's posted passwords... or the dead horse image on mystical equine lol... I thought that was kinda tactless but both sites are back up now and both sites took care of the security issues to protect their users.

    Kevin Mitnick is a really famous hacker. In his younger days he hacked some kind of army or government thing and wound up in prison. It was a huge controversy because he had no malicious intent it was simply a test to see if he could do it. He didn't look for information or save information or make profit or anything like that. So a lot of computer nerds had protested etc... until finally he was released. It's been a long time since I researched him though lol. I think he's pretty cool. Now he WORKS for sites helping improve security so that he is paid and legally allowed to try and get through their security and make it better :) We researched him in school or something for some reason. He's got an interesting story. I think there are better hackers in the world but he is one of the most well known and he works to improve security so I thought he was a good choice of someone to bring in haha.
     
  8. Peanut
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Oh I didn't know he forewarned them. Then he seems like a nice hacker. xD I would listen to him.. I mean if there is something lacking in your security, I would be all over it.

    Oh wow. :) I wish I knew that guy!
     
  9. Michi
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    Michi Hiatus Former VPL Staff VPL Member

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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Oh yeah there is forewarning, but this person gives so little time to even find what the problem is before posting the names and passes. The forewarning thing? Good. Posting users names and passes? Bad! Maybe instead of just a forewarning help them out to fix the holes. Not degrade them by posting their names and passes.
     
  10. Avalanche
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    What the Exposer SHOULD have done after contacting the website, is post publicly about it on the site, or anywhere he could, instead of doing what he did and revealing a whole bunch of passwords.

    Kevin Mitnick would be a true white-hat-hacker.

    As for passwords, I have one password for different levels. So like for petsites or random places I use a single password. For things like my photobucket account and website I use another, and for my bank accounts, paypal, etc. I use another, each increasingly more complex. :) Works well for me.
     
  11. Organic
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    There is SOOOO Much on the internet about him. You should read about it. It reminds me of that movie with Leonardo DiCaprio and the checks. He's kinda the computer hacker version of all that.

    And yeah, over all I think the Exposer has good intentions. Here is one of the things the exposer has said:

    "What it really does is, quite forcefully, makes sites upgrade their security. They know they can't open again, following the same practices. Plus, we don't do any damage besides having access to information.

    At the maximum, I make a news post, to alert the members of the site, that is it. I told the owner of Grophland how I compromised his site, and even told him, upon his inquiry, of a preferred encryption algorithm to use."

    So yeah the guy/girl (I keep feeling anti female here because I just keep calling the exposer a guy and I don't really know if they are or not lol) intentions are good. I've seen their messages on here as the pop up. Even though they are deleted and removed pretty quickly. It seems like they made a lot of effort to try to get people to pay attention and they have been really ignored. So they just stepped it up pulled out the information that they warned them was so readily available and posted it for their users to see.

    @Michi
    I totally agree btw. I hate that he's posting usernames and passwords even though it's only like 20. I don't agree with it at all. I had heard mystical equine was given more than a week though? As an owner of a site if someone told you they could easily and swiftly take all of your logins,passwords, and e-mails wouldn't you take the site down completely until you could fix it?

    I'm thinking this guy/girl isn't a genius. I'm thinking they are just one of those teens who have learned a couple exploits or something and decided to go robin hood. If that's the case then it seems pretty good they are getting there first because at least they aren't trying to use the info maliciously. If they can do it... someone else could easily go in without ANYONE knowing and try to use all of those e-mails passwords and logins... again maybe get bank info and things of that sort through the e-mails if the passwords are the same.
     
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  12. Peanut
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    I agree. :) I'm not exactly sure what this user did since I never seen him post usernames and passwords, but everyone has been saying something about it.
    I guess I just wasn't on the forums at the right time.
     
  13. Michi
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    Its because we got to it in time. But they tried posting the info twice under different usernames. The fact that they tried showing the info twice irks me.
     
  14. Organic
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    @Michi

    He's trying to post the usernames and passwords in the forum? Is he still just doing 20 of them or is he trying to copy and paste the whole thing?

    I'm wondering because I remember when MysticalEquine went down it was only 20. Again, I HATE the idea of it. I wondered though if he had specifically picked those 20 out though because they looked pretty bogus. They looked like ones that put silly passwords intentionally etc... not ones that would be connected with any other sites. I was wondering if he had done that intentionally so that he could get the point across but also had peoples best wishes at heart.
     
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  15. Drea
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    I see what he or she is trying to do by posting passwords, and it is bad, and I don't agree with it, but I can't help but wonder if they weren't posted if anything would have changed, you know? Not that I'm condoning it at all, because it's still completely and utterly wrong, but if the passwords weren't posted, do you think anyone would change? I dunno, it's a tough one. It seems like passwords should just be encrypted in the first place... it could be worse I guess, it could be somebody who was just out to completely and utterly destroy the website... Still wrong though, either way. I'd hate to be one of those users... especially since my username is the same on just about every website... O_O

    Also, @Avalanche, that is what I do with my passwords. My DA, e-mail, and other important passwords are very long and complex, while the less important ones are less complex, etc... it's a good system for me too.
     
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  16. Michi
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    @Love

    The person basically posted a huge list. Not just 20 users like last time and even pointed out David's admin account. And they did this twice. So, yeah. While they think they are being helpful, all they doing is causing trouble for all on that site.
     
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  17. Organic
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    @Michi :( That is a shame. I'm sorry to hear it. I truly don't like to hear that sites have been hacked.

    We've got us a misguided robin hood. It's weird. I'm on the ropes about him.

    @cpvr
    Since this person is vocal etc... and willing to answer questions. Why doesn't one of the admins here try to put together some rules and back him up. Help make him a good positive part of the community? Perhaps, they could allow him here to post what sites security is bad as long as he agrees to not post password/logins and do it in a constructive way? Maybe they would also be willing to give a site x amount of time before they take matters into their own hands? Maybe it would prevent a lot of un-necessary drama and also help to educate site owners that don't understand? It could be a good influence on the community.
     
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  18. Avalanche
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    What he did was illegal. That right there makes it wrong. I've always gone by 'the ends don't justify the means'. If you kill one person to save three, you're are a murderer. If you decide not to kill that person and they kill 3 people, THEY are the murderer, not you. If you steal from the rich to give to the poor, well you're still a thief. You still broke the law, no matter what the intention was. He still hacked their site, posted a picture of a dead animal, cussed, and showed off what they said to be the first twenty users, which probably meant the admin/owner's passwords were exposed. The fact that he flagged the site like that increases their chances of being hacked again in the future, and they probably ruined the site's reputation forever even though what the site was doing was not illegal. When you hand someone you're password you might as well assume they can see it. It's hard to judge the security of any website you join, so my suggestion is to pick wisely. That said, the hacker still should have chosen the path of working with the site owners to build up the site's security without ripping it to pieces. The hacker gave them 2 days to identify and fix any security errors. Now, I don't know about you but it takes longer than that to even find a reputable programmer to do the security fixes, not to mention the money it would cost, and the possible site downtime to get up the new security measures. Overall it was unfair, cruel and just plain wrong. This is NOT something anyone should encourage. If the site had refused to fix the issues, then the hacker should have simply posted publicly saying 'this site is unsafe!' without actually creating victims of the users.
     
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  19. cpvr
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    I know @Michi has sent a PM off to @nobackseat to see what we can do about this, and if we can get a guide up for pet site owners to follow by. Security is a major issue, and it sucks when our pet sites get hacked, or we hear about it. But those security issues should possibly be found by having testers - and coders who know what to look for, and give you the information on how to fix those issues.

    It doesn't help with passwords are shared with others, but goes to show you that you should always use different passwords, no matter what type of sites they are.
     
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  20. Michi
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    Re: How do users feel about having their login, passwords, and e-mails stolen on pets

    *agrees to all of that*

    Actually we are planning something right now, but that person will not be contacted in any way. They keep breaking the rules and even the law and there is no way we would trust a person like that.

    What @cpvr said. Just need to see if NBS is gonna help. Since I have no way of trying to explain something like this. XD
     
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