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Lolly: How Icepets Claws treated me.

Discussion in 'Virtual Pets Chat' started by Lolly, Jul 9, 2012.

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  1. Lolly

    Lolly Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    I wasn't going to post this here, but maybe this will stop him and open his eyes.
    As you probably know Claws is the owner of IcePets. I worked for IcePets for 3 years as the sole Graphic Artist and Head Admin.
    Many times, I was running the site, managing staff, coming up with features and basically.. Yeah.. Running the site.

    This thread is not a bash against IcePets, it is an eye opener on Claws, please respect the rest of the staff.
    Actually yeah.. He wouldn't have any staff if it weren't for me.


    First, let's back up to March 2012 when I first left IcePets.
    Honestly, I've blanked most of this out of my mind which I'll explain why later, but these are the facts.
    - I left because of how Claws treated me.
    - Users got involved, they demanded Claws apologized.
    - Users only got involved because Claws wouldn't listen to me.
    - Claws gave an apology that didn't even mention sorry and I accepted it for the users sake; they needed me.
    - Later when it was brought up again, Claws admitted he had nothing to apologies for.
    - I dropped it for the sake of the site and users.

    Sweet, so now that you have a wee background of that incident, let's proceed with what's happened. :)
    A few days ago I made a post in the Staff Forums announcing that I would be leaving the site for the following reasons:
    - Tired of the drama. (Community & Staff)
    - No passion for graphics.
    - Bad Management.
    2 Days ago, I decided I would help with our plot since the art wasn't organized. I worked everything out and completed all the graphics required.. Then I got an IM from Claws and this is our conversation straight copy pasted.
    I do warn you that it is VERY long, I have cut the top of it out because it sort of mentions something unreleased.
    The first message is Claws talking about my staff post on why I am leaving.
    I wish I had access to the thread so I could screen it and show you his reply and my post.

    Then I wake up the next day to this News Post

    Which is complete crap. I have never said I would quit because of my job.
    I enjoyed making the plot graphics, Claws attitude is what made me leave the site.
    I'd been promised things many times. For example, Custom Avatars. I hate making them, I wanted a reject button because some requests I can't do.
    I was promised it and a year later... Nothing.
    I'd met crazy deadlines, for example, I had to make a Premium Layout overnight. That was over a year ago.
    Still unused.
    There are many cases like these.
    I was tired of features being released half done after being promised it wouldn't happen again.. Take the Raffle Game for example. I got the art, writing, design and spec all done for it. Ages later, it's finally released and has a 'Raffle Shop' attached to it saying "COMING SOON!" that no one knows about and I highly doubt will ever be released.
    There are many features like this.

    I left because of Claws.
    I was pissed when I saw that news post, I responded, "Um.. Not true.".
    His response was the following, "That's what you told me a week ago when you decided to quit. Whatever you feel like calling your reasoning at whatever given time, whatever, just stop your drama please.".
    Again, I NEVER said I would quit because of my job.
    Remember, I just dedicated 3 years to this site and suddenly he's trying to make me look bad.
    I responded, "You're full of it.
    You know full well that I left because of the way you treated me.

    You know I told you that I would be a bit inactive for a few weeks until I settled. Quit twisting my words, I left because of YOU."

    In which he prompty locked the thread and replied, "Stop lying....please. It's not doing anyone any good. You had no problem with me until after our disagreement that was after you're announcement to leave.

    I'm locking this thread. If anyone wishes to clear the air with me, please do so privately. I'm open to answer your questions by private message."

    I'd hate to see what he's telling people.

    But wait! It gets worse. :)
    I created a leaving thread.
    Deleted when I relevealed the truth.
    I created a giving things away thread.
    You'll see some posts have been edited by Claws, but you get the idea:
    http://www.icepets.com/newboards/viewposts.php?topic=14021&p=1
    Users started making leaving boards. I think 2 were IP banned and their threads deleted.

    Claws has been telling everyone that I am trying to bring IcePets down.
    This is also incorrect. If I had wanted to bring IcePets down, I would simply have deleted the site.
    I want Claws to learn from this so he can manage the site. He will fail if he does not listen to his staff and he will fail if he treats his staff how he treated me.

    These are the kind of messages I have been getting:
    [12:08:41 PM] Claws: You are a lying hateful humongously egotistical person.
    [12:09:32 PM] Claws: A backstabbing traitor, and a bad friend.


    I can screenshot that if you'd prefer. And for those who may claim it's out of context, here's the convo from the start:
    Obviously, I blocked him.
    His attitude is the problem, and everything I have said is proven here:

    [​IMG]

    This was a Moderator who was fired, and this was posted publicly for all users to see.
    I think the topic has been deleted now as Claws tries to cover everything up.

    Mails I've been getting:
    Please stop your disruptive antics.
    And I see a lie posted on your profile. Knock it off Annie.
    - For the record, my profile tells users the truth. I don't actually understand how he has convinced himself that he's telling the truth and is right.
    My response:
    What happened to our block feature? I think I have a use for it. LOL.

    Seriously though, users just want the truth and I'm telling them it as it comes. Don't lie if you don't want them to know the truth.
    Just admit how you treated me was wrong and publicly apologies for it.

    His:

    Lolly, that is never going to happen. If I were to apologize, it would be a lie. I don't lie, Annie, not for any reason.

    I'm not sorry for trying to clear up misunderstandings and sticking by it. I am sorry for all the drama you put these people through as a result.

    I know you want to teach me a lesson, Annie, but that's not going to happen here. Not like this.

    You were offended by the misunderstandings I pointed out, are blinded by your anger and damaging what you helped to build.


    Me:

    This is why your members are leaving you.
    Don't even attempt to blame it on me, you've done this all yourself.
    They can see through you, and they can see the truth.
    I'm not asking them to leave, don't even try to blame this on me.

    You could have stopped all of this from happening, but still, you refuse to admit you're wrong and correct what you have done.

    Him:
    You're acting like a nutcase right now. Leave IcePets alone.

    I can screenshot all of this if you'd prefer.
    I don't even think I've posted everything because there is so much, but you get the idea.
    I have quit this industry because of this. Originally I was going to just stay at IcePets, now, I'm out.. Totally over being screwed over.. >.>
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  2. ekwag

    ekwag New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    yeah, i witnessed this whole thing, and the way he was treating her, in public was completely unacceptable, and it seems as though in private it was even worse. Yes, i was one of the users IP banned, because i questioned something a staff member did. The staff even continuously responded to my board and then deleted it when users were going against claws, then I was IP banned. His behavior was completely completely unacceptable. And to make it worse, he was constantly lying about things and editing posts so that people would not see the truth
     
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  3. Velxeor

    Velxeor Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    I like how most of the people on that thread said they'll miss you then promptly switched to shoving their wishlist down your throat.
     
  4. Ixyra

    Ixyra Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    Hmmmm...this treatment rings a bell for some strange reason.
     
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  5. bird

    bird Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    @Velxeor Haha, that's human nature, unfortunately. When things like this happen, people grab at whatever they can.

    I don't exactly know what/how Icepet runs, but the funny thing about karma is that it works pretty well. Icepets will float or sink, depending on Claw's future actions, and hopefully this abrupt change will be the wake up slap. This is entirely a matter of professionalism, and it just seems like you need to work with people who clearly understand your needs/work diligently instead of only you putting in the effort. Like many large projects, every person involved needs to put in their 110% to achieve that 110% goal. It's that simple.

    Quitting was a good choice, frankly, to me. I wouldn't put up with that silliness either.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2013
  6. Becky

    Becky New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel youuuuuuuuuuuu johannaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I feeel youuuuuuuuuuuu do they think that walls can hideee youuuu when I'm looking through your windowwwwwwwwww
     
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  7. Mutationification

    Mutationification Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    wow.
    Thank you for posting this / bringing it to light so users can be cautious when getting into business for this site.
     
  8. Jolly

    Jolly Supporter VPL Supporter Pet Game Owner Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    Lolly when reading some of your messages you and Claws were both acting kind of mean...
    This post is completely unnecessary and your only posting it because your mad. These types of conversations need to kept to oneself not the whole world.

    I known you Lolly for a long time, and I know how much you hated when people started drama on icepets. If you really loved icepets you would have not have posted this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
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  9. Asphodel

    Asphodel New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    I'm not sure why its anyone's business that someone got drunk on a skype conversation or why it needs to be posted on vpl.
     
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  10. ekwag

    ekwag New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    This post will keep others aware of the actions taking place and serves as a warning, and I believe that she is hoping other people in the industry will get it into his head that he has to change the way he acts for his own sake, since he refuses to listen to her. So I think this post is great
     
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  11. Its_Mike

    Its_Mike New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    This needs to be posted here because whenever anything about the situation it is posted on IcePets they lie about it, delete it entirely or just lock the thread and try and make the problem magically disappear.
     
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  12. Asphodel

    Asphodel New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    So personal habits and life are fair game? It seems more like trying to ruin someone's life than get him to listen to her. The personal habits like getting drunk on skype do not equate over into the site. May be hungover, but who hasn't said something incredibly stupid on a petsite?
     
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  13. Its_Mike

    Its_Mike New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    Ok, the drunk part was one TINY part of the entire conversation. If she edits embarrassing stuff out, she's going to get accused of not telling the whole story. I don't see why it's a big deal. That shouldn't be the issue here at all.
     
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  14. Lolly

    Lolly Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    For the record, I wasn't drunk when I was talking to Claws. He was drunk, I had started drinking and was sober.
    You're actually picking at that?
     
  15. Wrath

    Wrath Retired Moderator Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    You have no right to post this here Lolly. Personal attacks on site owners or sites are not allowed here. For someone who loves Icepets and has been an admin for over 3 years, you show little respect and regards for the rules of other sites, and for Icepets in itself. You stirred up so much drama for Icepets on the site itself, and now you're bringing it here?

    Your attack should be towards Claws directly through PM or IM. Not posted publicly to slander his name, and Icepets. Icepets has nothing to do with this situation, and you're not only giving it a bad name, but you're making the staff that pour hours into the site, down with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
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  16. Lolly

    Lolly Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    Dante, just because you work for IcePets doesn't give you the right to change the rules on VPL to match your desires.
    We have always been allowed to post here if we haven't been treated right and you know full well it's not a personal attack.
    It's a warning to the industry, perhaps someone can help him see right.

    Don't you dare try that on me and for goodness sake, quit telling everyone I'm out to get the site!

    Edit: Also CPVR knew full well I intended to post this. He never said not too.

    Edit: Nice to see you edited you post.
    If you had read my first post you'd see that I did try talk to Claws about this. You'd also realize this isn't an attack and know full well that it's about Claws; not IcePets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
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  17. Wrath

    Wrath Retired Moderator Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    I haven't changed the rules, Lolly. Of all people, you should know that I'm not going to be the person to bend rules to my own accord. I was specifically told that personal attacks on other people are not allowed here by @cpvr. And it's your own fault for being ignorant to the rules of this site.
    Yes it is a personal attack. You said it yourself Lolly, that you wanted to see Claws go down.

    Then stop this! You don't see it because you're too bust trying to 'teach Claws a lesson' but you're hurting Icepets because of this! For goodness sake, why dont YOU just let it go? Why cant you be the bigger person and leave Claws, and Icepets, alone to sink or swim?
     
  18. Lolly

    Lolly Approved Artist Approved VPL Artist VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    OH MY GOD.
    Would you just QUIT twisting my words?

    Didn't I explain several times what I wanted to happen?
    I wanted IcePets to suffer so that Claws would change his attitude and in turn, be a GOOD staff manager.
    I have TRIED to talk to him and he will NOT listen, this thread is in the hopes that he will come around and fix his attitude.

    Again, and I'll even make it bold for you:
    This is not a personal attack, it is to the community is aware and in the hopes of Claws coming around so IcePets will succeed.


    And NO, I won't leave it. Coz frankly there's 3 years of my life in that site.
     
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  19. Avalanche

    Avalanche Supporter VPL Supporter

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    VPL does have a protocol that allows users to talk about their bad experiences with particular people. I know some may not like that but both sides of the story SHOULD be allowed WITHOUT censorship. Just because Claws is site owner doesn't mean he should silence those who oppose him. I'm not taking a particular side, just saying that people shouldn't be silenced just because it makes someone else look bad. Claws has every right to post his side of the story here too.
     
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  20. Becky

    Becky New Member VPL Member

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    Re: Lolly: How Claws treated me.

    Please everyone.. There's no need for this.
     
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