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Should illegal immigrants be allowed to work?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cpvr, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    We all know that there's a lot of illegal immigrants that are in the United States - but should they be allowed to work? I know here in TX, we have a lot of illegal immigrants that work on houses and various other things - and they do work that other people don't want to do - and leaves me to the question, should they be allowed to work - or should have to become citizens before being allowed to work?
  2. -Ro-
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    -Ro- New Member VPL Member

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    This is really close to home from me.. when I went the u.s I went legally but since I was Hispanic I met a LOT of immigrants, and I know many really sad stories about how they went to the u.s and why..never met one of those having a decent job, most cleaned restaurants or burger kings at night or did stuff like that that noone really likes..I met people that worked from 11pm-6am and then from 8am-5pm every single day, even thanksgiving and christmas..not one day off in the year.
    I also had a friend, an 8 year old girl that went to apply for a certain school and they told her that she couldnt because she was an alien and I remember my friend crying her eyes out, trying to understand why they called her an alien..
    Having met so many people in that situation I have a LOT of simpathy....because every single person I met had a reason for leaving their country and going the u.s, some even had really sad reasons..

    I understand that there are many different kinds of immigrants, some arent there for the right reasons and just to harm..but I dont know I really think its a really complex subject...

    Even if they arent legally allowed to work, we all know they will anyway xD
  3. SilverMoon
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    SilverMoon New Member VPL Member

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    I think that in general they shouldn't as unemployment is high enough already in most places, however what would be a good idea is the employer being able to sponser them to let them be allowed a temporary work visa as there are some jobs that nobody except immigrants would want to do and that way they won't have to worry about being kicked out of the country.

    I understand that people may have bad situations that caused them to have to leave their country, but it isn't fair on other countries to have to also support them when they're struggling to support their own people.
  4. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    How do they have an effect on unemployment? If companies are choosing illegal immigrants over other people - then who's to blame for this? The cheaper labor costs, or?

    I agree. Especially out here, you don't see a whole lot of people besides people who aren't from this country - working on houses, cars, etc... Is it because they also tend to learn hard labor pretty fast? Like, at my old job, at lot of the people were using work visas because they didn't live in this country - they were also some of the most hard working people of the company.

    I know the US is about having freedom - and some people come here to get away from their country back home - but then again, this is our home as well, and shouldn't we welcome others into our country that aren't doing us any harm? I think its actually benefiting us a bit because they're working and getting things done.

    How are we supporting them if they find a job and work hard? They're going out there and surviving - isn't that what life is all about though? Working hard, and trying to make it? And make something out of yourself?
  5. -Ro-
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    -Ro- New Member VPL Member

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    This, they arent pity cases...they went to another country, worked their butts off to earn their money and have a better life, thats it.

    Can you imagine working every single day all day every single holiday to do jobs the americans wont do because the pay is extremely low and the jobs are unpleasant? Because thats their life, they arent there to hurt anyone or to ruin your economy or whatever, most are there to do miserable jobs that sometimes makes them feel like shit about their life but they do it, they do it to give their children food and a roof..even if the kids spend every single christmas alone at home while their parents are moping up floors or cleaning bathrooms.

    Noone chooses to go illegally to another country, shit happens in life and sometimes you gotta do things you dont want to, just to survive and have a decent life.
  6. Rebel Networks
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    Rebel Networks New Member VPL Member

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    The way I see it, is why should illegal immigrants benefit from receiving employment in our countries, without having to pay taxes and other requirements that we have to just to be able to live in our country. They should be allowed to work, so long as it's LEGAL and they are paying taxes. Otherwise, they can just go away. The un-employment rates are still very high, and by giving illegal immigrants the jobs for cheap, it's resulting in our economic distress. It's not like they're helping or anything.
  7. Mentalist Traceur
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    Mentalist Traceur Member VPL Member

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    Giving illegal immigrants employment doesn't take anyone's job. I'll let Dr. Maddox explain:
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

    It is by making it so hard to legally come in to the country and legally get employment that America messes itself up.

    Let's cover this really quick: If employers chose to hire someone illegally, they do it to cut costs. Correct?

    Now, why can they cut costs by hiring illegal labor? Because either A: No American will take that job, or B: no American will take that job for under minimum wage. A is not the immigrant's fault, it's the Americans' in question's fault. B wouldn't happen if they could get in the country legally, because then they would be able to go through legal employment channels and the employer couldn't pay them under minimum wage - because the only reason they can get away with it now is ignorance of American laws on behalf of the immigrants, and the fact that the employer can blackmail them with their illegal presense if they appeal for higher wages.

    So if you let them come into the country legally, you remove the #1 advantage they have to employers, which is cheapness, and the ability to bypass all the normal legal protections they would have to give to a legitimate employee. So simply put, make them able to legally get jobs and the employer has no financial incentive to hire them over Americans.

    Now, onto this taxes thing: It's solved the same way. If they come in illegally, they're off-the-grid, and taxing them or knowing they failed to pay taxes, is hard. If they come in legally, taxing them is easy, because they're recorded in the system the moment they reach the country. Now, do you really think that these people are sitting the in Mexico going "hmmm, I can go get a visa, or I can go through months of hardship looking for someone with connections, then crossing the border, and then dodge the legal system there"? 'course not. They desperately seek something better than their living circumstances, or else they wouldn't go what they go through to get over here (if you think it's been easy to cross the border the last decade, you're either misinformed, or have a way of camoflauge against the desert and can hide your body's heat output from airborne patroling drones).

    Saying "they should just come here legally" is a blatant failure in American culture to understand how hard that is. Americans have this lovely advantage of being welcome - often without even a visa - to a bunch of nations - at least for visits. If you're a Mexican, and you're poorly off enough in your country to want to come here, current immigration restrictions simply won't grant you a visa.

    So make immigration easier to get visas for legally - and your illegal immigrant problem will drop - as more Mexicans come in legally, it will be a lot harder for employers to hire Mexicans at an unfair disadvantage to Americans. The playing field would level to "who's willing to work harder?", and at that point, in my opinion it doesn't matter what your nationality is, if you're doing the job better, you deserve it, barring other problems (like mental/physical disability, horribly psychologically traumatizing events, and other not-in-scope-of-this-discussion matters).

    As for any notion that illegal immigrants are at all contributing to this country's economic problems - I call bull - they are a culturally easy scape goat - as immigrants have always historically been, in most countries. People get spoiled in some sort of life style, and then someone comes along who's not as haughty about themselves, and is thus willing to take a job you wouldn't have taken anyway, and suddenly, they're taking "your" job.

    These illegal immigrants do the opposite - they keep this country alive, at this point - at least chunks of it. You take every illegal alien out of this country, and see how long this lavish lifestyle of the middle and upper class lasts. There's already a subclass of culturally invisible poor in America, over worked and ignored, not thought about or looked down on, but they won't stretch to cover all the gaps the illegal immigrants fill.
  8. ça
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    ça New Member VPL Member

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    For those claiming unemployment is "high" at 10% in the US, darlings, you don't know anything about the rest of the world...bubbles are bad :(
  9. -Ro-
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    -Ro- New Member VPL Member

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    Its true, Its EXTREMELY hard to get into the u.s legally!
    Also, lol you had a 9% unemployment rate in january, you cant seriously find that very high xD

    Oh and by the way, Id love to see you guys eat in a dirty burger king without immigrants there to go clean it up every single night, because I doubt many americans would do that job for the wages immigrants get.

    My parents had to do that job for a while,while we were still sorting papers out(like I said, not easy) , they cleaned 3-4 burger kings from 11pm-6am before going off to work in a hotel for the rest of the day.. they had to leave me alone at home(I was like 6 or 7)every single night, even in fucking christmas and I never knew if I would see them come home safely the next day or if immigration would have picked them up.
    Hell some nights I didnt feel safe at home and I went to work with them, I usually just sat there, sometimes cleaned the fries machine.. I saw how hard their job was... and Im pissed at people that diss immigrants because damn, you have no idea how hard that life is..no human wants to live like that if they do its because theres no better way.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2011
  10. SilverMoon
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    SilverMoon New Member VPL Member

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    Simple maths, there are a limited amount of jobs and so the more people in the country, the higher the unemployment rate will be. I'm not saying they're "stealing" jobs from people, but rather it'll just make unemployment even worse because there are now even more people trying to get jobs.

    Because if they're illegal immigrants, they won't be paying taxes thus won't be contributing anything to the society. We all work hard and pay taxes in order to receive plenty of benefits (such as education, medical care, council houses etc) and so why should they be able to come here illegally and take advantage of all that without giving something back? If they want to live here and improve their life, they should do it the proper way and play by the rules that the rest of us have to follow. Again, that's why I support the idea of giving them work visas so that they will be a benefit to society.

    I feel I should also point out that I don't live in the USA so I understand that it might be completely different in America (especially since in the EU you're pretty much free to move around and work/live in any country you want legally)
  11. Tantra
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    Tantra New Member VPL Member

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    Some Americans have it just as bad. Nothing against immigrants though. My husband is half Mexican and some of his family came into his country illegally.

    Right now I am at a job that promised me 36-40 hours a week, and as a Key Holder. Then a new store manager comes in and my job is taking away from me and now I am a cashier/key holder and barely getting any hours. Also my health is going down hill fast, and very scared for my health and if I am gonna have a life much longer, and on top of it worry if I am going to have a home to live in because my pay checks are not enough to live on. So I would take a job cleaning up Burger King or whatever job I could take, but there is just no jobs out there. I applied at one of the only places that is hiring right now and they told me I had the job and would call my references, now haven't heard anything from them. So now I am facing giving up all the little things I care about, so not all Americans don't want the hard jobs, I would take one of those jobs in a heart beat, if it could mean I could keep my home and have enough money to get the doctor and get my health back, and not possibly die on the streets :(.
    Organic likes this.
  12. Drea
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    Drea Approved Artist Approved Artist Approved Writer VPL Member

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    I do not. I also think that illegal immigration should be cracked down on. I do think that there should be more options for those who want to come into the US though.

    Where I live, unemployment was almost at 20% for my city. I haven't been able to find a job because unemployment is so bad and yet I see immigrant workers doing jobs that I could be doing. I'm sure that many if not most of them are illegal.

    Living next to the border to Mexico means that there are tons and tons of illegals coming in, taking our jobs and our houses, and putting us at a disadvantage.

    My brother in law, who is a legal Mexican immigrant, will not get a pay raise because there are illegals working with him who deal with making less, and he can basically work for what they make or be fired. These same illegals tried to hurt him on the job because they didn't like how he was wanting a pay raise and they just got slapped on the wrist by their employer. My brother in law would be hard put to find another job as unemployment is very high here.

    I know there are sad stories and that others are disadvantaged but you cannot make such a huge sacrifice to those who were born here and deserve the ability to have a job for those who came here illegally. Not to mention the fact that it is causing overpopulation and making everything more expensive to buy (houses, etc) because there is more competition.

    I would gladly work at McDonalds or Burger King in place of one of those immigrants but I cannot because there are no jobs available. Why should an American citizen have to suffer from those who are coming here illegally?
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  13. ça
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    ça New Member VPL Member

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    It isn't illegal immigrants "taking jobs," it's companies moving position overseas because the US government doesn't have safeguards in place anymore because the Reagan administration removed them, as well as the banking ones too.
  14. el canadiano
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    el canadiano New Member VPL Member

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    Watch Food, Inc. It's kind of ironic that the Christmas ham is processed in a Tyson/Purdue/Smithfield plant by an alien, and whenever the cops come, they just give them a few immigrants, bit by bit.

    That said, America needs younger people (like Canada and many western nations will require) to pay the bills/taxes come 10/20 years from now, when the "Baby Boomers" retire.
  15. Mentalist Traceur
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    Mentalist Traceur Member VPL Member

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    The thing is, I get that it sucks when people get to work but you don't, but I don't think being born on a different side of an imaginary line should be an argument for you being less entitled to that work.

    That said, humanity is getting to the point where our economy needs to shift to different models of distributing work/pay, this attempt to cram so many people into lower class jobs while population increases and technology becomes able to replace more and more of those jobs, well, it doesn't work. Cheaper labor, human or mechanical, is always something capitalist businesses will go for,other factors permitting. Our world hasn't structured itself to enable utilizing all the potential that can be derived from human beings in the technological environment we're in, and so the employment situation continues to worsen, and probably will until we shift from the current social structure that came with the industrial and put-everyone-middle-class-in-a-cubible "age(s)", and into something more capable of working with modern technological potential.

    Historically, such shifts happen in mixes of necessity and opportunity presented by entrepeneuring businesses - the problem is the environment, at least in the US, has made it harder for entrepeneuring businesses to try radically different models and actually succeed, because the horrible corporation crowded, patent-abuse-for-technology, model that we have today here. And necessity, when it changes things, often does so violently.

    So in the end, I think you can't really solve the problem in question with allowing or suppressing illegal immigrant jobs. The underlying issue is population growth, aging work models, and wealth inequality, and if you solve the symptoms they'll come back elsewhere until you grow out of the proverbial "disease".
  16. Soulwatcher
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    Soulwatcher Member VPL Member

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    This is a touchy subject but there is already a major lack of jobs in the USA. So I do not think illegal immigrants should be allot to work.
  17. que
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    que Approved Artist Approved Artist VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    Illegal immigrants? No.
    They'd be evading taxes, and you know.. that's just as illegal as being in the states without a visa/passport.
    I mean, there's an application process for a reason.
    Get a work visa.
    That's what I'm doin'. :/ I just don't think it's cool to be exempt from stuff everyone else has to abide by just because someone managed to sneak by under the government's noses. No offense to anyone.
    ..and I don't mean that in an "I'm being offensive, but saying 'no offense' to make it non-offensive".. I mean it as.. I seriously don't mean anything rude by what I said, aha.
  18. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    Ya, but do you think some illegal immigrants do jobs that others don't?

    I believe some aren't even able to get free medical care because they can't obtain health insurance due to the fact they're not citizens.
  19. SilverMoon
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    SilverMoon New Member VPL Member

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    If you want a job and need the money, you'll do any job you can. There are plenty of people that will come here legally and do the "less desireable" jobs and so the idea that "illegal immigrants" will do jobs that others won't is flawed because the only difference between them and legal immigrants is that they came here illegally.

    Also as I said, I'm not in the US and so it's completely different over here - medical care is free for everybody, even if you're just on holiday it will still be free (and you even get given a card so that while you're in other countries in Europe you also get free health care) and so if you're here illegally you can just take advantage of that as much as you like, along with all the other benefits of a welfare state.
  20. dreamer
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    dreamer Member VPL Member

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    I have heard that the county hospitals in the Metroplex are treating illegal immigrants and they have been benefiting from the food banks, etc....but they are not paying the taxes to help support these services and therefore it is straining city and school budgets trying to cover this resulting in loss of jobs. I have mixed feelings about the immigration policy.... but still they have entered the country illegally and are living outside of the law. I know that many are fleeing from horrible situations and feel badly for them. But, unless they go through the process, no one knows for sure if they are responsible people or criminal. I would like to believe that someone will come forward with a solution.
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