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  1. Virtual Pets

    Welcome to the Virtual Pet list forum!

    We're a Virtual Pets and Sim Games Community. We have a lot of Virtual Pet Sites Owners and Sim Games Owners that frequently visit, along with Artists, Writers and Programmers that come here looking for work and games to work for. Our Artists sell art in our Art Marketplace and Programmers are allowed to sell scripts in the Programming Marketplace. We've been opened since 2011 and since then we've grown and expanded quite nicely. What are you waiting for, why don't you join today?

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When does a site begin to die?

Discussion in 'Virtual Pets' started by Gabby, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    I'm curious ask to what you think about sites dying out. In your opinion, what are the tell tale signs a site is going on a downward spiral and probably can't be saved?

    I think a site begins to die in this order:
    1) The art marketplace has no where else to go, therefore degrading in quality and diversity.
    2) The owner releases a way to buy premium features separately from the complete package itself, therefore giving money away.
    3) The owner seems less focused and less interested with concerns from players, producing great neglect and denial to any evidence stating the obvious.
    4) A lot of the original players quit and don't return (or do, but do not stay for long.)
    5) Feedback is censored and restricted.
    6) The game's economy and currency tanks, taking a severe turn for the worst (crazy high inflation that money sinks don't aid).
    7) Little suggestion is taken, or suggestion is taken but is taken in a useless way.
    8) No expansion: the site becomes 'old news'
    9) The forums become inactive
    10) A staff survey is posted in effort to 'help the game improve' though history shows they won't be taking any suggestion soon.
    11) Updates are slow or useless
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  2. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    The lack of a good management team. Banning users for no reason. Having strict rules.
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  3. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    Do you think banning a user for speaking their opinion in a ranting manner is reason for slander/libel and warrants a permanent suspension?

    All of those reasons man.. :c Wow.

    Having strict rules is also true, but what if it's coupled with poor management? As in, there are so many staff members that no decision is ever really clear--suspensions are practically 16 staff members talking in one message, and all the staff members are practically 'beating you up' in the ban message.
  4. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    Users should be able to express their opinion - as long as its not "too personal", such as attacking some of the staff members.

    It is related to poor management because if you don't set the standards for the rules, then the users won't know what they can or cannot do. Bad management = bad rules usually.
  5. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    Would you consider a private message to another user about how they feel about a staff member 'an attack'?

    Also, a word on management...
    [video=youtube;LE528sNNm-s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE528sNNm-s&feature=player_detailpage#t=494s[/video]
    Skip to 8:14, apply what Peter says about his bosses to the management of players on a site.
  6. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    @Gabby Private messages shouldn't be a staff member's concern because if they're looking at the private messages, it means they don't have any respect for the user's privacy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2013
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  7. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    @cpvr Also, if the site is run well, they shouldn't have to read through messages. Lol
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2013
  8. Onyx
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    Onyx VPL Supporter Pet Game Owner VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    What's wrong with strict rules? Maybe we're thinking about different kinds of rules, though. Khimeros has strict rules against multi-accounting, and transferring between accounts on the same IP/same household. We have to, because otherwise multi account abuse would be absolutely rampant, as it has been in the past, with people having two or three or more accounts and pretending they belong to "siblings" or "parents" - with the bulk of the profits somehow ending up on one account. This is highly unfair to someone who's playing the game by the rules. Therefore, we have rules in place so that you can only send one item every couple of months as a gift between accounts on the same IP. Otherwise, you can trade with each other through the trades system, as long as it's "fair trade". We do not allow currency to be transferred between these accounts, at all. I'm very much convinced that this is a good rule, even if "strict".

    Personally I also think that users should be allowed to voice their opinions, even if they are negative. However, there comes a point when certain users can get so out of hand with the ranting that it can actually start to disrupt the site. When I start hearing from users that they are avoiding the forums/avoiding certain subforums because one person (or a few people) are making it so incredibly unpleasant to be there, then something needs to be done. It's not fair to the other users to let a few unpleasant people ruin everyone else's fun. So yes, I think there's a time to say "enough is enough, your opinion has been heard, let's move on to a new topic". Or to remind users that they are still expected to behave in a courteous manner even if they are ranting about something. I don't see this as censorship - it's just common sense.
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  9. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    Strict rules - not relating to multiple accounts and such. Such as, "you can't talk about this site or that one", censorship towards other sites - and limiting user's ability to talk about certain things - such as "no opinions that are downgrading the site", things like that.
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  10. FlyingApe
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    FlyingApe Approved Artist Approved Artist VPL Member

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    Too much commercialization is very negative.
    If the people who spend real money on the site get so many perks that there's no way to compete by playing for free, then the site is going to fade.
    Much like Maplestory. They're working on fixing this, but it's still very evident. Pay to be good, play for free to be mediocre.

    Not enough commercialization is also negative. This one's obvious. haha.

    If you never update, or change WAY too much too often, you're also doomed for failure. People are getting sick of Facebook's changes, and people left MySpace due to the lack of change. :p
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  11. Onyx
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    Onyx VPL Supporter Pet Game Owner VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    @cpvr ah yes, that I will agree with. It really puts me off when a site doens't allow discussion of other sites - I ask myself, what's wrong with this site that they have to be so insecure as to not allow other sites to be mentioned? It's not like everyone doesn't know the sites exist anyways, lol.

    I don't think that users should be told they can't express opinions that are negative, but on the other hand, users have to realize that if you are allowed to say what you want, then other people are, too. It's annoying when someone posts a negative opinion, another user pipes up with a differing opinion and are immediately slammed as "brown nosers" who are just trying to "suck up to the staff". Ditto when staff post a rebuttal to someone's negative comment and are immediately called "defensive" and that they "can't take criticism" (which, considering the situation, is pretty hypocritical, lol).
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2013
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  12. Centauri
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    Centauri New Member VPL Member

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    To me, a site begins to die when it runs out of ideas. If all you have is one good hook, one 'cool' thing about your game, people will get bored with it and move on. I think we've all experienced that, haha.
  13. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    Basically the entire community I'm thinking of. :3
    It's no wonder they're dying, lol.
  14. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    Funny thing is I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same exact thing. ;)

    How is *coughcough* doing? I don't visit (can't, obviously) but I've heard it's pretty bad. I also heard you were suggesting to make USD sales for art, pretty interesting. You should make a thread about that on here, see what opinions you collect and everything. :c If you don't, I will ^-^ ehehe
  15. Centauri
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    Centauri New Member VPL Member

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    No, I'm not talking about that website haha, more like those sites where all you do is join, make a custom animal, and breed it... and that's it. There's tons of them. Unless they have other interesting aspects to the site (like Khimeros with its item crafting,) I will get bored within a day and leave.

    It's doing fine to my knowledge, adding new breed images and little updates here and there. I still visit daily.
    I made the thread, but I feel like there are a lot of unbased fears being thrown around; yes, there are things to look out for when allowing people to sell art for USD on your site. But in that site's case, USD had been allowed at a previous time and no bad things happened at all. The reason it became banned was because one person tried to sell an animal for money. So in that circumstance, there's no real reason not to reallow it for art at least.
  16. Gabby
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    Gabby Happy to help! Administrator

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    @Centauri Haha, sorry, what you said here:
    reminded me of the constant routine of taking care of your animals and being bored because nothing else happened. On top of that, there were at least several things that were incomplete (the park being incomplete since testing stage).

    I have always believed in allowing USD along with an in site currency conversion. I don't know how the thread went, but unbased fears sounds so familiar about that community. So much tension and so much stress for trying to communicate in general. I'm not trying to sound mean, but I'm happy those days are over. I've never had that here. It's so great to speak your opinion and not have to walk on eggshells because 'big brother' is watching
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2012
  17. cpvr
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    cpvr Owner and Founder Administrator

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    When a site owner starts running out of ideas, its usually because the site's revenue is down, and going down everyday. And that's mainly because of a lack of interest towards the game, especially if it brought in a lot of money for the owner.
  18. Centauri
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    Centauri New Member VPL Member

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    " I don't know how the thread went, but unbased fears sounds so familiar about that community. So much tension and so much stress for trying to communicate in general."

    It's still a WIP. It's pretty divided, a lot of people have said no support and not given a single reason because 'they didn't want to be quoted and refuted.' Which me and the other supporters found rather ridiculous - if you post on a public forum, especially on a controversial topic, your argument will probably be (respectfully) disagreed with. Many of the no supporters have threatened to quit and are acting very exclusive towards people who would like to sell their art for USD. I am yet to see anybody on the supporting side act in this manner.
    You can't just tell someone to 'go do that on another site,' that's how you lose members entirely, and permanently. (Like the site did when it first banned USD.)

    Everyone's top argument seems to be 'it's not fair to offer USD because not everyone can afford it.' Um, the internet is full of things you can't buy, this would just mean the things you can't buy happen to be on the sim site you play. xD

    That's another sign the site is dying, the members are rigid and close-minded to possibly beneficial changes.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2012
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  19. Onyx
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    Onyx VPL Supporter Pet Game Owner VPL Supporter VPL Member

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    I feel like I'm missing half the conversation here, with not having any clue about what the site in question is xD What does this selling for USD mean? Selling site related stuff or just selling art privately?
  20. Centauri
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    Centauri New Member VPL Member

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    The USD thing- a site banned the ability to sell original art (tags, refs, etc) for USD on the site. You can only sell for game currency, you cannot even advertise offsite commissions.

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